Who would even know 400 people willing to break LD law?

[TheQueef]

Just saw it on the news.
Any of you could muster 400 people to break the law?
I could maybe get 20 out of everyone I've ever known, how do you even ask?
It was a school to boot! No teaching but come to school for a secret bash!

So...
YANBU no I couldn't gather a big group of rule breakers.
YABU I could easily get that many, everyone is at it.

@Gwenhwyfar they do know they will get sick.

But they also believe its a mitzvah (good deed) to make the bride and groom happy (and this bride may have been the daughter of someone important). They also have 8 children in a 2 bed flat and are not allowed netflix or internet or telly. Thats not really an excuse as I know orthodox jews who are more middle of the road, and they are pretty cramped themselves, but they don't do stupid stuff like that.

But when your community leaders say its ok, you can see why they do whatthey do.

@onlychildandhamster I didn’t know the community was largely for vaccination (everyday was a school day).

My assumptions were based on the measles outbreaks that occurred a few years back.

It’s good to know that the community at large are trying to educate people (signs/loudspeakers etc).

And while 400 people is a lot (I’m trying to remember when I last socialised in a group of 3+ 😢), it’s not for that community. For all we know a further 400 may have declined the invite for Covid reasons...

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Me neither. I'd imagine it's cultural to have such large weddings. I've attended the odd Indian wedding, and the number of people who turn up! We are talking 1k plus.

Wrong. It was a Jewish wedding.

"*Gwen" yes but it affects Catholic as much as other civil marriages but not hindu and muslim and weirdly our law does not require those to have a civil marriage at the same time whereas Christian and I believe Jewish too marriage are required by English law to have a civil as well as a religious ceremony under English law."

I thought every marriage had to include an official registration and a marriage certificate. I just found this on Google too:
"It is most important to note that religious marriage ceremonies are not recognised in English law unless the legal requirements are also complied with. A marriage certificate is issued to all couples who have legally recognised marriage ceremonies."

Either way, you then go on to say 'Christian' so there is nothing specific against Catholics is there?

I see your point about Church services - they shouldn't be allowed either imo - but I suppose the likelihood of cheating on the numbers would be too much.

There's at least one Catholic priest who obviously can't be trusted to follow the law: www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/coronavirus-lockdown-newport-cardiff-wedding-18354414

They know they will get sick, their community has been ravaged by Covid. However, a charedi neighbour said to me, when there was some obvious gathering & party in lockdown one, "we believe in the laws of god, not the laws of mankind" before wandering in to join the party. For many in that community a wedding is an important religious celebration, so I guess that trumps everything.

"But when your community leaders say its ok, you can see why they do whatthey do."

Who are the people organising the announcements and signs in their own language then, not the community leaders?
Yes, I can see how you might follow your community leaders, that's kind of like us following politicians, although with less respect I suppose.

@Londonmummy66 10k is nothing for these communities. An orthodox jew has to give 10% to tzedakah or charity (which includes jewish communal organizations) even the very poor. The rich businessmen of the community have to give even more. As an example, as my MIL is orthodox and has a mezuzah on her door, she used to have haredi jews who would come to the door and ask for money to marry off their children, and she would actually give money even though she isn't rich and isn't even really part of that community. They can actually make quite a bit crowdfunding like this so that 10k would be easily raised

Charedim are described as a deprived community and they are in many ways but as a whole, they do have assets, some of them are surprisingly wealthy. And their society is quite socialist- there are donors, scholarships and interest free loans for everything from weddings to furniture.

When you’re ok with mutilating the genitalia of baby boys, I guess 400 people at a wedding in a pandemic is nothing.

@Gwenhwyfar there are several sects and many many rabbis so not all would have the same view.

It was a Jewish wedding. There’s be lots of community and business linked people there.

I assume some of them may be very disappointed when they find their religion/god isn’t going to help them survive the virus

Just by sheer numbers, I’m guessing it’s an Indian wedding. I’m mixed race - my extended family is Indian. You won’t believe the number of people ! You invite everyone you know !!!

@R2221

Just by sheer numbers, I’m guessing it’s an Indian wedding. I’m mixed race - my extended family is Indian. You won’t believe the number of people ! You invite everyone you know !!!

It’s not

@NeckOfTheWoods

They know they will get sick, their community has been ravaged by Covid. However, a charedi neighbour said to me, when there was some obvious gathering & party in lockdown one, "we believe in the laws of god, not the laws of mankind" before wandering in to join the party. For many in that community a wedding is an important religious celebration, so I guess that trumps everything.

Fair enough, I suppose none of them would want live saving medical treatment anyway then as they believe in the laws of God and not mankind.

"@IrmaFayLear Interesting article by same author"

Wow. There would be a scandal if a British politician said any of that.
And the voter bloc thing isn't relevant here of course.

@ineedaholidaynow they know that many esteemed members of their community have died of covid, including Rabbi Avrohom Pinter.

They just think their religious obligations and the mitzvah of celebrating a wedding and bringing joy to the bride and groom is more important

So I will be controversial and say that when the date was announced some people did indeed object. Don't worry comes the response- God will protect us. And so everyone was okay to break the law. I hope some very large fines follow!

Brainwave89

Well done for objecting :)

I’m not sure I even know400 people, but almost everyone I know is prepared to bend the rules, except for a friends husband, and ge only won’t because someone at his NHS trust was disciplined for breaking the rules.

we believe in the laws of god, not the laws of mankind
'we believe in cherry picking the shit out of life so that we get to have our cake and eat it'....more like

God May protect them. I hope so as I don't wish anyone harm. However it doesn't give them the right to break the law. They're disgraceful.

@Xenia

If you believe in eternal life and that life here is just a tiny bit of your life then it is a legitimate position to take that you will not give up your religion and customs

Nobody is asking them to give up their religion.

Just that the leaders, caterers, school authorities plus all adults at the wedding should cough up the ££. It's irrelevant who ends up paying the fines, it doesn't matter if the cost is shared amongst the community. They (and any other group) need to understand that no one is above the law, that's all.

www.whtimes.co.uk/news/crime/mansfield-man-issued-with-fine-after-large-funeral-6922746

There was a double funeral near me yesterday for a couple who had died of covid. 150 people turned up, some people really don't think the rules apply to them!

we believe in the laws of god, not the laws of mankind

It is also common in the Hasidic Jewish community for the husband not to work so he can focus on religious study, so families often live on benefits.

Taking history into account, it is not at all surprising (and indeed understandable) that the Hasidic Jewish community keep to themselves and don't mix with those outside their community. However, even if they were unaware of the restrictions (unlikely IMO), the community leaders, event organisers, caterers, etc. would have been and they wilfully ignored the restrictions to have a party.

Cancelling weddings suck. Trust me, I know - I had to cancel mine (it was for 200 people, which was actually our attempt to limit numbers...), but ultimately people's lives are at stake here and regardless of your religious beliefs and the sacrament of marriage, the sacrament of life is even more important.

@Xenia

If you believe in eternal life and that life here is just a tiny bit of your life then it is a legitimate position to take that you will not give up your religion and customs

There are many people who believe in eternal life, and have faith in God...but they also believe that preserving life is important, so how does recklessly having parties, and putting lives at risk work with not giving up religion and customs?