DD’s science teacher AIBU

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Dd14 is quite an opinionated teen and has become very sensitive to even a sniff of inequality. I think it’s quite cool that she has strong beliefs but do sometimes have to tell her her to rein it in a bit..

She came down from Google classroom tonight on a fowl mood and announced that she was drafting a complaint letter to her science teacher due to an argument they had over an exercise in class...

The exercise was dividing statements into fact and opinion, ie FACT on average the sun is 150 million miles from the sun. OPINION pineapple taste good on pizza...

The final one was girls should be able to work in any area they choose which I’m sure you have guess the teacher was adamant was opinion and if had been marked down on the sheet as such...

I personally think this is less about being opinion or fact statement and more to do with it being a poor choice of example in a class of predominantly strong minded young girls but DD is very upset and angry at her teacher.

Is she being a bit immature and dramatic or does she have a point...

I’ll include the work sheet in next post.

It is an opinion but you are right it shouldn't have been chosen as an example!

If a teacher doesn't anticipate this incensing a few of his or her pupils then they are a poor judge of 14 year old girls!

The point is to incense the pupils (hopefully not just the girls). Well, maybe not incense, but to let them see that something that might be considered to be correct/right is not a fact in a scientific sense.

"It's a BRILLIANT lesson and I think the teacher should be nominated for teacher of the year."

So, nobody has actually looked at the worksheet. This presents as FACT that the Sun averages 150 million miles from earth. How does a science teacher not know that it is approximately 93 million miles.

A very, very poor effort

By choosing not to correct your DD you are allowing her to assume shes right.
Its not 'cool' to be blinded by your own opinions and think you are always in the right to the extent of firing of letters of complaints, tbh your DD sounds like she will cause a lot of 🙄 with her strident attitude.

It was a poor example but I see what she was trying to do.

However , teenagers also need to learn that they can't 'complain' about everything.

@VeniVidiWeeWee

"It's a BRILLIANT lesson and I think the teacher should be nominated for teacher of the year."

So, nobody has actually looked at the worksheet. This presents as FACT that the Sun averages 150 million miles from earth. How does a science teacher not know that it is approximately 93 million miles.

A very, very poor effort

I know.

It's really worrying that the scientific worksheet 'fact' is wrong.

I think it is an opinion as it's not something that can be measured and determined to be true. DD needs to learn that however strongly held her opinions might be, they're still opinions.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance but you'll never be able to see the woods, if you keep crashing into the trees."

Beautiful statement.

I'm going to disagree about it being apoor example. The fact that it generated debate illustrates (and maybe this is precisely why she chose it. Plus i note the teacher is female herself) that people might disagree over fact/ opinion. Its very clearly an opinion ofcourse. And, assuming it's one that people think should be universally held, doesn't promote it to scientific fact. Plus, if I think v hard, theremightbe some jobs that necessarily exclude one gender. I'll think of examples.

@orangenasturtium

If a teacher doesn't anticipate this incensing a few of his or her pupils then they are a poor judge of 14 year old girls!

The point is to incense the pupils (hopefully not just the girls). Well, maybe not incense, but to let them see that something that might be considered to be correct/right is not a fact in a scientific sense.

Why incense them? It's just stupid and unnecessary.

It says girls should be able to work in any area they choice I thought opinion but isn't it a fact? As it's should not can.

As if kids need to be wound up this much!

@Maves

It says girls should be able to work in any area they choice I thought opinion but isn't it a fact? As it's should not can.

Other way round.

Should makes it an opinion.

@P999

I'm going to disagree about it being apoor example. The fact that it generated debate illustrates (and maybe this is precisely why she chose it. Plus i note the teacher is female herself) that people might disagree over fact/ opinion. Its very clearly an opinion ofcourse. And, assuming it's one that people think should be universally held, doesn't promote it to scientific fact. Plus, if I think v hard, theremightbe some jobs that necessarily exclude one gender. I'll think of examples.

I say this as someone who encourages healthy respectful debate in my classroom. But there is a time and place.

Shes 14 and like any other 14 year old she doesn’t like being told she’s wrong

If that fact or opinion OP?

There’s a whole host of teachers telling these kids they are wrong, and their over inflated egos will be the undoing of them!

Everyone can have an opinion, but there’s nothing nice about someone who forces that opinion on others as fact.

Take any emotive situation, opinion or fact? Either way I don’t take kindly to have the opposite view forced upon me by some over passionate person. By offering her enraged opinion, doesn’t change anyone’s view.

What about fields that women literally can't do? There are probably some that require a massive amount of physical strength, more than any woman has- even the strongest of women is not as strong as a lot of men. Or if a woman decided they wanted to be on the men's national football team when they're not as good etc.

But yes, it is a weird example.

I think it's a good example. Just because an opinion is the right one, doesn't make it a fact. Learning to be neutral, even when you feel strongly is crucial to the Scientific method.

Ah I remember almost getting kicked out of a NUS conference for saying a similar thing (I disagreed with the sentence anyone can do any job regardless of sex, disability etc) gave the example of a Catholic priest or a person with a physical disability being an active front line fire person. I was also a science graduate so to me a fact is a very different thing as others have indicated. The women's officer went bolistic (despite her asking the question and wanting people to say how much they agreed/disagreed with the statements) and didn't like that I then wasn't kicked out of the conference.

It's good that your daughter is passionate about equality it's a fantastic attribute to have but yes in this case would save off the letter.

Yeah the worksheet is crap. Point #4 showing no understanding of the specificity of medical tests. Unless the MacFadyeans blood smears were chock full of anthrax bacilli or something. If the doc with the clipboard said "The blood tests viewed in light of the patient's history and clinical exam findings support the diagnosis of sepsis as the cause of death" I'd be with her.

The point is, that an opinion doesn't always need to be justified by appealing to a scientific fact to carry enough weight for others to agree with it. There is an assumption that its weak or fallible without that backup. To say 'it's wrong to exploit the vulnerable' should be a universally agreed opinion. And you can justify it without the need to anchor it to science.

I agree with your daughter

@P999

The point is, that an opinion doesn't always need to be justified by appealing to a scientific fact to carry enough weight for others to agree with it. There is an assumption that its weak or fallible without that backup. To say 'it's wrong to exploit the vulnerable' should be a universally agreed opinion. And you can justify it without the need to anchor it to science.

Take a look on the free school meals threads and you'll see otherwise.

Half the problem with Trumps presidency was the inability of people to tell fact from opinion.

It's disturbing to find that it's not a lot better on Mumsnet.

Any sentence that contains the would SHOULD cannot possibly be fact. And parents backing up their children when they're mistaken about something, simply because 'well they're passionate about it' are very much part of the problem.

What about fields that women literally can't do? There are probably some that require a massive amount of physical strength, more than any woman has

Technology changes this though. One woman with a set of modern chainsaws could do the work of twenty silverback gorilla shaped male lumberjacks with crosscut handsaws. If she had a timber harvester, make that fifty gorilla blokes with crosscut saws.

Sigh. There are plenty of shits out there, yes. It 'should' be universally agreed isn't the same as 'is' universally agreed. But by the same token, we should all trust the scientific consensus about global warming, doesn't mean that there are self serving arseholes who live in denial.