DD’s science teacher AIBU

[Adviceneededalways]

Dd14 is quite an opinionated teen and has become very sensitive to even a sniff of inequality. I think it’s quite cool that she has strong beliefs but do sometimes have to tell her her to rein it in a bit..

She came down from Google classroom tonight on a fowl mood and announced that she was drafting a complaint letter to her science teacher due to an argument they had over an exercise in class...

The exercise was dividing statements into fact and opinion, ie FACT on average the sun is 150 million miles from the sun. OPINION pineapple taste good on pizza...

The final one was girls should be able to work in any area they choose which I’m sure you have guess the teacher was adamant was opinion and if had been marked down on the sheet as such...

I personally think this is less about being opinion or fact statement and more to do with it being a poor choice of example in a class of predominantly strong minded young girls but DD is very upset and angry at her teacher.

Is she being a bit immature and dramatic or does she have a point...

I’ll include the work sheet in next post.

Your DD is over the top.
People have different opinions and perspectives.

It's good to be passionate and opinionated , but DS shouldn't be praised for arguing with teachers. This needs monitored.

Also, I actually just read the worksheet, it says ‘girls SHOULD be able to work ...’ it doesn’t say ‘CAN’

Surely we would all agree that with the use of the word ‘should’ that makes it a fact

@Bringonspring

Also, I actually just read the worksheet, it says ‘girls SHOULD be able to work ...’ it doesn’t say ‘CAN’

Surely we would all agree that with the use of the word ‘should’ that makes it a fact

No, it makes it an opinion.

Should and could can't be a fact. That aside, there are still some dinosaurs that believe otherwise.

I’m guessing that women cannot be chaperones for men in medical examinations.

Personally I think it's a great example. Because it got her and probably others engaged. It's a value laden statement so obviously opinion. Some opinions are better than others.

I would have expected a science teacher, of all people, to use more precise language. If I was your daughter I'd have been tempted to opine that females under the age of 18 should not be permitted to serve in active theatres of war, or practise as doctors, dentists or vets as that would necessitate their having commenced their university degree course at the age of 13 or younger.

And also that females, as a class, are able- as in physically and mentally capable- of doing just about any job except playing the part of Dirk Diggler. Some jobs, such as hod carrier, the average woman would do about 20% more craply than the average man, but she could still physically do it. Although there are probably some jobs that they are rightly not permitted to do- "Men in Sheds" counsellor, for example, or the nuclear reactor one. (Mind you there are a few shades of grey in the latter. If a young woman has a letter from her gynae surgeon confirming that she has had a hysterectomy, is she allowed to do that job?)

As my granny would have answered when I asked "Can I have a biscuit?" - "You can, but you may not".

This thread is one of the reasons some teachers are refusing to teach live online lessons .
From a scientific point of view it is an opinion. Your daughter is overreacting .

@powershowerforanhour

I would have expected a science teacher, of all people, to use more precise language. If I was your daughter I'd have been tempted to opine that females under the age of 18 should not be permitted to serve in active theatres of war, or practise as doctors, dentists or vets as that would necessitate their having commenced their university degree course at the age of 13 or younger.

And also that females, as a class, are able- as in physically and mentally capable- of doing just about any job except playing the part of Dirk Diggler. Some jobs, such as hod carrier, the average woman would do about 20% more craply than the average man, but she could still physically do it. Although there are probably some jobs that they are rightly not permitted to do- "Men in Sheds" counsellor, for example, or the nuclear reactor one. (Mind you there are a few shades of grey in the latter. If a young woman has a letter from her gynae surgeon confirming that she has had a hysterectomy, is she allowed to do that job?)

As my granny would have answered when I asked "Can I have a biscuit?" - "You can, but you may not".

My mother loved ' I don't know, can you'

@Bringonspring

Also, I actually just read the worksheet, it says ‘girls SHOULD be able to work ...’ it doesn’t say ‘CAN’

Surely we would all agree that with the use of the word ‘should’ that makes it a fact

It’s the use of “should” that makes it an opinion.

Because not everyone will agree that “women should”.

A fact would be something like “Women are more biologically suited to nurturing infants.” (Because boobs etc) [Waits to be told this is wrong!]

I think that the teacher is foolish for
not anticipating this argument. It may seem like a Poorly chosen example but it is actually a clever one as it forces the pupils to think really hard about what is fact/opinion (the others are obvious examples) and it is good for them to come across a challenging situation.

Could point on should

We have only found 2 instances so far however. I think it’s a fact with a couple of exceptions!!!!

I think your bigger concern should be why have you raised someone who thinks frothing complaints letters are a good solution to different opinions

And let’s face it even though women should be able to do any job they want , there aren’t many that do the physically demanding “ dirty “jobs .
Are many female bin workers are there? builders , plasterers, abattoir workers ?

I'd say it's an opinion purely because the word 'should' was used. Using words like should kind of give off an individual view.

If it was worded as girls are capable of working in any work environment this seems more fact.

But this is semantics so it's arguable either is correct.

The use of the word 'should' means that this is a statement in ethics rather than science. Now, whether ethical statements are factual or opinion is itself a philosophical question. But I'm not getting the impression that your daughter is angry because she is an objectivist about ethics.

Surely, wherever you stand in an ethical debate, it's important to recognize that you are arguing about ethics rather than science. That's all the teacher is trying to teach the class. And everyone shold be able to recognise the difference whether or not they agree or disagree with the relevant ethical statement.

I actually think the teacher is giving an important lesson here, and I would encourage you to get your daughter to see what that lesson is. RIght now, I think we face many problems precisely because people aren't being careful about what is ethics and what is science.

It is an opinion, but I agree it seems unnecessarily inflammatory and dare I say it, a bit childish. It's science, not pshe.

It's a BRILLIANT lesson and I think the teacher should be nominated for teacher of the year.

I think it’s a great example of teacher promoting thinking skills.

There are things woman can’t do, same as things men can’t do, it’s raises lots of discussion and thought. Her teacher got the reaction she was aiming for.

OP, if your PIL ir dh had used this as an example you'd have very different reactions.

@Bringonspring

Could point on should

We have only found 2 instances so far however. I think it’s a fact with a couple of exceptions!!!!

As it is stated in the question it is an opinion. The “should” makes it an opinion. That doesn’t mean it isn’t also a fact.

For example someone could say “girls should have the same access to education as boys in the UK”

That’s an opinion being stated. But it is actually a fact that girls do have the same access to education as boys.

But as it is stated, the “should” tells you it is an opinion.

Do you understand why the answer to the OPs question is opinion, rather than fact, even though the thing can actually be a fact too? It’s about how it has been phrased.

Agree with this
I voted yabu because of your DDs attitude seems very disrespectful I can’t imagine being anything but hmm if my child had an argument and was planning to write a letter of complaint to a teacher I think respectfully raising it with an open mind would be the way to go

@MaudHatter

This thread is one of the reasons some teachers are refusing to teach live online lessons . From a scientific point of view it is an opinion. Your daughter is overreacting .

If a teacher doesn't anticipate this incensing a few of his or her pupils then they are a poor judge of 14 year old girls!

@ltappleby

Not what you were asking, but the worksheet is incorrect - sun is not 150 million miles from the earth - it should read 150 million kilometres, which is 93 million miles.

Exactly.

The 'fact' is wrong.

Is that in itself some kind of test? Some bloody science lesson.

You are correct @mathdoc. But there is no point trying to discuss whether 1.9 recurring is equal to 2 if your students can't count to 2.