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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DD’s science teacher AIBU

740 replies

Adviceneededalways · 21/01/2021 21:46

Dd14 is quite an opinionated teen and has become very sensitive to even a sniff of inequality. I think it’s quite cool that she has strong beliefs but do sometimes have to tell her her to rein it in a bit..

She came down from Google classroom tonight on a fowl mood and announced that she was drafting a complaint letter to her science teacher due to an argument they had over an exercise in class...

The exercise was dividing statements into fact and opinion, ie FACT on average the sun is 150 million miles from the sun. OPINION pineapple taste good on pizza...

The final one was girls should be able to work in any area they choose which I’m sure you have guess the teacher was adamant was opinion and if had been marked down on the sheet as such...

I personally think this is less about being opinion or fact statement and more to do with it being a poor choice of example in a class of predominantly strong minded young girls but DD is very upset and angry at her teacher.

Is she being a bit immature and dramatic or does she have a point...

I’ll include the work sheet in next post.

OP posts:
Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 00:37

@saraclara

Half the problem with Trumps presidency was the inability of people to tell fact from opinion.

It's disturbing to find that it's not a lot better on Mumsnet.

Any sentence that contains the would SHOULD cannot possibly be fact. And parents backing up their children when they're mistaken about something, simply because 'well they're passionate about it' are very much part of the problem.

Let's not be comparing well meaning parents and 14 year olds to Trump, though.
ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown · 22/01/2021 00:38

I disagree about the distance of the sun point - it is inaccurate, but it is still a factual statement (just one that is wrong), rather than a statement of opinion.
I think it was Hume who said you can't get an ought from an is - I wonder did it work both ways round?
Poor, poor teacher. I hope she doesn't bother to offer live lessons any more if this is the standard of behaviour it provokes.

P999 · 22/01/2021 00:39

should have written 'aren't self serving arseholes living in denial'. Scientific facts can be just as vulnerable as opinions. Where someone is being a self serving arsehole.

NameChange2PostThis · 22/01/2021 00:43

This is the difference between ‘can’ and ‘should be able to’. It’s semantic.

It’s a poor example. It’s not a hanging offence. Unless this teacher has form for sexism, I’d persuade DD to let it go.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 00:43

@ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown

I disagree about the distance of the sun point - it is inaccurate, but it is still a factual statement (just one that is wrong), rather than a statement of opinion. I think it was Hume who said you can't get an ought from an is - I wonder did it work both ways round? Poor, poor teacher. I hope she doesn't bother to offer live lessons any more if this is the standard of behaviour it provokes.
Quite.
TomBradysLeftKneecap · 22/01/2021 00:45

She’s 14. It’s not your problem. Just let her self advocate for herself and keep the big guns for the big problems.

lousytypist · 22/01/2021 00:48

A skilled teacher "should" be able to show her why she's wrong. However, as a teacher, I'd learn something from your DD's response which would make me reflect on my choice of worksheet.

Learning isn't about asserting your (inaccurate) opinion - it's about having the reflective and analytical disposition to realise when you're wrong and why when you meet new ideas that clash with your old ones, and to revise your understandings or behaviours accordingly. It sounds like her ego could get in the way.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 00:51

@lousytypist

A skilled teacher "should" be able to show her why she's wrong. However, as a teacher, I'd learn something from your DD's response which would make me reflect on my choice of worksheet.

Learning isn't about asserting your (inaccurate) opinion - it's about having the reflective and analytical disposition to realise when you're wrong and why when you meet new ideas that clash with your old ones, and to revise your understandings or behaviours accordingly. It sounds like her ego could get in the way.

It isn't an inaccurate opinion.

She believes that woman should be able to do anything. that's her opinion, and that's fine. It only becomes inaccurate if she;s using inaccurate info.

The point is though, the overall statement is an opinion, not a fact.
That's what she's wrong about.

JaimieLeeCurtains · 22/01/2021 00:51

@ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown

I disagree about the distance of the sun point - it is inaccurate, but it is still a factual statement (just one that is wrong), rather than a statement of opinion. I think it was Hume who said you can't get an ought from an is - I wonder did it work both ways round? Poor, poor teacher. I hope she doesn't bother to offer live lessons any more if this is the standard of behaviour it provokes.
I wouldn't want my DC to be taught by a teacher who teaches them wrong 'facts'. It's a science lesson, not an audience with Kellyanne Conway.
orangenasturtium · 22/01/2021 00:52

@Frodont The teacher needed to find something that the students have a strongheld belief in, so likely something that will incense them. As a PP said:

Just because an opinion is the right one, doesn't make it a fact. Learning to be neutral, even when you feel strongly is crucial to the Scientific method.

JaimieLeeCurtains · 22/01/2021 00:54

It's not even the scientific method.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 00:54

@JaimieLeeCurtains

She made a mistake.

We are under massive pressure.

RickiTarr · 22/01/2021 00:57

If we don’t keep in mind that it is an opinion, we won’t be on guard to protect it as a freedom that we now -largely - have.

Its important that the DC are taught that not everyone shares common western opinions about freedom and feminism.

JaimieLeeCurtains · 22/01/2021 00:58

[quote Wheresmykimchi]@JaimieLeeCurtains

She made a mistake.

We are under massive pressure.[/quote]
I'm arguing with this:

"I disagree about the distance of the sun point - it is inaccurate, but it is still a factual statement (just one that is wrong), rather than a statement of opinion."

What next? Creationism? It's inaccurate, but still a factual ststement?? I mean, why actually bother with science lessons if inaccurate statements are deemed to be facts?

It's a science lesson for Year 8, not post-modernist philosophy.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 01:03

I dont disagree with that.

I do however disagree with this
"I wuldn't want my DC to be taught by a teacher who teaches them wrong 'facts'. It's a science lesson, not an audience with Kellyanne Conway"

JaimieLeeCurtains · 22/01/2021 01:05

And that is most certainly your opinion.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 01:16

Absolutely.

As is yours that you don't want your child to be taught by someone who makes an error on a worksheet in a pandemic.

The post you quoted was a PP's opinion , which we don't agree with. Fine.
But there is no getting away from the fact you said the above.

JaimieLeeCurtains · 22/01/2021 01:17

No I didnt.

DdraigGoch · 22/01/2021 01:18

@Cabinfever10

No female of child baring age is allowed by law to work at or around a nuclear reactor nor are they allowed on British naval submarines (diesel subs due to hygiene and nuc's due to the reactor). I am sure that there are other jobs that women/girls can't do so the teacher is correct.
Off-topic but the Royal Navy hasn't had diesel submarines since the Upholder Class were sold to the Canadians in 1994 (at which time the RN had only just started letting women serve aboard the surface fleet). Women have been serving on the RN's nuclear fleet since 2014. Medical research has shown that there is no risk to fertility.

Even the infantry takes women now, there are few parts of the military not open to all.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 01:19

You said you didnt want DD taught by someone who teaches wrong facts.

It's clear that the "wrong fact" was an error on a worksheet.

Which part of that have I got wrong?

VeniVidiWeeWee · 22/01/2021 01:19

[quote Wheresmykimchi]@JaimieLeeCurtains

She made a mistake.

We are under massive pressure.[/quote]
That does not excuse a basic error. I'm not a science teacher but I know the distance between the Sun and Earth.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 01:24

@VeniVidiWeeWee

Yeah, you're right.

Let's criticise her.

Nobody in any other profession ever makes a basic error.

DdraigGoch · 22/01/2021 01:27

@Viviennemary

It isn't a good example. Saying anyone can win an Olympic medal. Is that opinion or fact.
Neither. The use of "can" would put it in the 'fact' category but if you were to actually attempt to prove that anyone can win an Olympic medal you would find that it cannot be done. If you said that "anyone should be able to win an Olympic medal", that would be an opinion.
Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 01:29

@Viviennemary I see your point actually, it took me a minute to think about that. But it's still opinion, because 93 year old granny can't win a medal, therefore it's an opinion.

VeniVidiWeeWee · 22/01/2021 01:32

@Wheresmykimchi

They are a science teacher. The worksheet was about facts versus opinions. And they couldn't be bothered to check the "facts".

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