DD’s science teacher AIBU

[Adviceneededalways]

Dd14 is quite an opinionated teen and has become very sensitive to even a sniff of inequality. I think it’s quite cool that she has strong beliefs but do sometimes have to tell her her to rein it in a bit..

She came down from Google classroom tonight on a fowl mood and announced that she was drafting a complaint letter to her science teacher due to an argument they had over an exercise in class...

The exercise was dividing statements into fact and opinion, ie FACT on average the sun is 150 million miles from the sun. OPINION pineapple taste good on pizza...

The final one was girls should be able to work in any area they choose which I’m sure you have guess the teacher was adamant was opinion and if had been marked down on the sheet as such...

I personally think this is less about being opinion or fact statement and more to do with it being a poor choice of example in a class of predominantly strong minded young girls but DD is very upset and angry at her teacher.

Is she being a bit immature and dramatic or does she have a point...

I’ll include the work sheet in next post.

Hopefully the teacher won't linger on the fact that the dd is "wrong", but will debate it.

The teacher already had an argument aka "debate" with DD about it. We don't know if the argument started with an explanation that DD didn't like, or if the teacher went straight to "what is on the sheet is right". But if DD doesn't get it then her mother complaining to the school will not help her get it.

It is an opinion. It’s been included to illicit discussion around what we “feel” is factual when it isn’t. That’s the point, which your daughter has missed (as I would have too at that without discussion). Perhaps you could discuss it with her.

Op it’s important that you teach your daughter how to be wrong in the same way it’s important to encourage her opinions and debate, otherwise you’ll raise someone who can’t be wrong. In this instance your daughter is wrong.

I think it's actually a great example for highlighting the difference between a fact and an extremely emotionally charged opinion.
I think this is exactly where the waters become muddied for a lot of people (see the whole trans debate).

Very poor example that distracted from point of the exercise.

Being a massive pedant as well a blood test is going to show the presence of high levels of bacterial infection. A doctor will need more information than that to determine cause of death. Again just a bit ambiguous when more clarity needed.

Then again, this perhaps raises an uncomfortable truth about facts and opinions in that there is not a sharp line between them, just as there is not a sharp line between what is science and what is not science. Philosophy of science is complex!

@Frodont

I agree, but the question was “is there any job a girl cannot do” and the fact is there are jobs that girls/women cannot do

No, that wasn't the question

@Frodont Apologies, you're correct.

@lottiegarbanzo

It's not a 'sensitive and emotive' subject. It's the difference between the word 'should' and the word 'can'. Statement of opinion versus statement of fact.

Your dd, you and half the thread have been sidetracked by your emotions, to the extent that you have set aside your critical thinking skills and lost sight of the question being asked.

In that sense it was a very clever choice of example and you've fallen into its trap.

It comes back to that classic exam advice: Answer the question. That is, read and make sure you have understood the question before answering. Answering what you think the question was about rather than what the question actually was, is likely to earn you no marks.

It is a sensitive and emotive subject though - and the key is the word "should", and it's interesting that for many the former trumps the latter, thereby demonstrating how easy it is to miss the true sense of something (i.e. what the question is really asking) when emotions are at play.

I think its a really interesting example for the science teacher to use. An opinion does not become a fact simply through strength of belief. Your daughter's over-reaction is unsurprising, since rhis generation seems to think that being exposed to opinions they disagree with is a source of great harm and offence, therefore everything has to contain "trigger warnings". Perhaps the teacher wanted to draw attention to the fact that not all women enjoy/ed the benefits and protections we take for granted in this country or point in history.

@SmellsLikeTeenBedroom

I think its a really interesting example for the science teacher to use. An opinion does not become a fact simply through strength of belief. Your daughter's over-reaction is unsurprising, since rhis generation seems to think that being exposed to opinions they disagree with is a source of great harm and offence, therefore everything has to contain "trigger warnings". Perhaps the teacher wanted to draw attention to the fact that not all women enjoy/ed the benefits and protections we take for granted in this country or point in history.

The problem is that it isn't really the point of that lesson to discuss that. This is about the scientific method and so we should be talking about factual observations and opinions not delving into sociology and politics.

The teacher should have stuck to clear unemotive examples to get the point across.

If its an opinion, then the dd can't be wrong 🙂

@Frodont

If its an opinion, then the dd can't be wrong 🙂

The example DD was given is an opinion. The DD's answer as to whether it's fact or opinion is factually right or wrong.

Your reading comprehension seems to be a bit off.

That would apply if she was asked to give her opinion, but they were being asked to identify which statements were facts and which opinions. And she got it wrong.

The teacher should have stuck to clear unemotive examples to get the point across.

No. As has already been said, the difficult thing is to separate fact from opinion when emotions are heightened and people feel strongly. That's why a good teacher will include this kind of example.

This is exactly what learning to be rational involves. It's easy when it's easy. It's hard to remain factual and reasonable when emotions are heightened.

This is a science lesson, not a social studies one.

This is about the scientific method and so we should be talking about factual observations and opinions not delving into sociology and politics.

Because science never strays into or is affected by sociology and politics?

It is extremely important that anyone doing science is accurate in what they write, interprets correctly what they read, and can clearly differenciate between fact supported assertions and mere opinion.

@Frodont

If its an opinion, then the dd can't be wrong 🙂

She isn't wrong about whethr girls should be able to do things, but she is wrong that the statement was an opinion.

@Saraclara you really don't need to be that rude

@Saraclara you really don't need to be that rude

You're right @Wheresmykimchi. I'm finding this thread hugely depressing. I really wanted to think that more people would understand the question that the teacher was asking. And I feel so badly for teachers that they're being judged as incompetent or plain wrong, when this teacher was doing exactly what was required, and precisely what the DD needs to learn. Emotion and passion can the enemies of science, or they can help lead it.

But I let my frustration get the better of me. The erroneously smug smiley face did it for me. My apologies to that poster.

[quote saraclara]**@Saraclara you really don't need to be that rude

You're right @Wheresmykimchi. I'm finding this thread hugely depressing. I really wanted to think that more people would understand the question that the teacher was asking. And I feel so badly for teachers that they're being judged as incompetent or plain wrong, when this teacher was doing exactly what was required, and precisely what the DD needs to learn. Emotion and passion can the enemies of science, or they can help lead it.

But I let my frustration get the better of me. The erroneously smug smiley face did it for me. My apologies to that poster.[/quote]
Oh I agree and I regularly post things I regret in frustration and red mist. I know that I don't come across well.

But we are all in the same boat and insulting reading comprehension isn't cricket.

That was rude saraclara.

I thought this thread had stayed remarkably civil until then.

Fwiw I was trying to make a light hearted comment.

Your daughter’s ridiculous and immature response to the question is exactly what the teacher was trying to demonstrate! Oh the folly of youth...

I hope it is a learning moment for her, to realise that she’s 14 and she doesn’t know everything. Strongly held views and morals are great, but it’s easy to verge into bigotry. Her desire to shout down the teacher with a letter of complaint is an excellent illustration of how she is failing to understand the lesson. Let her write it if you want, it will be a teaching moment as she’ll look like a prat.

The teacher did an excellent job engaging pupils and getting them to think. It’s a shame that your daughter—who prides herself on being so progressive—is unable to think on a higher level and analyse the purpose of this exercise.

It’s perfectly fine for people to tell her that she’s wrong when she is. It might be good for her to realise that at 14 she actually doesn’t have all the wisdom in the world.

yes but I have said several times already I think a child is far better reaching the right answer theirselves through discussion and further than telling her she is wrong and shutting down any line of conversation about it..
That's very true but likely that she tried this but your DD wouldn't listen and insisted in trying to make her point across.

It's very good to teach kids/teenagers to develop critical thinking, its as important for them to.kesrn that they don't know everything and people with more life experience are more likely to be right and therefore worth being listened to.

Also, if she’s so interested in debating and politics, she needs to learn the difference between fact and opinion! I would be worried about a teenager having such strong beliefs with seemingly no higher order thinking skills. Means she is vulnerable to indoctrination and lacks the skills to develop she thinking

@Onjnmoeiejducwoapy

Your daughter’s ridiculous and immature response to the question is exactly what the teacher was trying to demonstrate! Oh the folly of youth...

I hope it is a learning moment for her, to realise that she’s 14 and she doesn’t know everything. Strongly held views and morals are great, but it’s easy to verge into bigotry. Her desire to shout down the teacher with a letter of complaint is an excellent illustration of how she is failing to understand the lesson. Let her write it if you want, it will be a teaching moment as she’ll look like a prat.

The teacher did an excellent job engaging pupils and getting them to think. It’s a shame that your daughter—who prides herself on being so progressive—is unable to think on a higher level and analyse the purpose of this exercise.

It’s perfectly fine for people to tell her that she’s wrong when she is. It might be good for her to realise that at 14 she actually doesn’t have all the wisdom in the world.

Seriously? DD is 14 - she is meant to be immature! And she isn't "shouting down" by writing a letter of complaint- that is a very responsible way to protest.

"A prat?" What a horrid way to talk about a child! I hope you are neither a parent or teacher.

OP, your DD is passionate about justice and proactive. Good stuff! At 14, she naturally needs to learn to moderate and reflect etc, while hopefully not losing that fervour by being slapped down without empathy! .... I am sure you can help her in doing all that.

@BraveGoldie

A pupil writing a letter of protest to a teacher s utterly ridiculous