Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DD’s science teacher AIBU

740 replies

Adviceneededalways · 21/01/2021 21:46

Dd14 is quite an opinionated teen and has become very sensitive to even a sniff of inequality. I think it’s quite cool that she has strong beliefs but do sometimes have to tell her her to rein it in a bit..

She came down from Google classroom tonight on a fowl mood and announced that she was drafting a complaint letter to her science teacher due to an argument they had over an exercise in class...

The exercise was dividing statements into fact and opinion, ie FACT on average the sun is 150 million miles from the sun. OPINION pineapple taste good on pizza...

The final one was girls should be able to work in any area they choose which I’m sure you have guess the teacher was adamant was opinion and if had been marked down on the sheet as such...

I personally think this is less about being opinion or fact statement and more to do with it being a poor choice of example in a class of predominantly strong minded young girls but DD is very upset and angry at her teacher.

Is she being a bit immature and dramatic or does she have a point...

I’ll include the work sheet in next post.

OP posts:
Fufumuji · 22/01/2021 10:11

She 14, if I said “I don’t care what you have to say, you’re incorrect and I don’t want to hear any more about it” for example, how is that teaching her anything?!

Why would you say that? You need to explain to her that she has to be able toaccept when she is wrong, or no-one is ever going to listen to her. She IS wrong on this, and you need to explain to her that she is wrong, and why, and to help her appreciate that accepting being wrong is part of the scientific method and debate and everything else.

Original poster
Adviceneededalways · 22/01/2021 10:11

@WINKINGatyourage quite the opposite.

I have said since my 2nd post that I would explain it from another POV and help her see the real answer but this seems to have been overlooked.

OP posts:
YetAnotherSpartacus · 22/01/2021 10:12

I think your daughter should write the letter - but point out that it was an inappropriate example (steer clear of fact v. opinion).

wildraisins · 22/01/2021 10:13

OP - I don't think your daughter is too young to understand the point made in my previous post.

The answer to the actual question asked ont he worksheet is simple - it's opinion.

However, that doesn't meant that the teacher was correct to put that on the worksheet.

I think you should encourage your daughter to explore that, and the idea that perhaps her teacher is a bit out of touch, or was just a bit lazy with this worksheet that has probably been dredged up from some 30 year old archive.

Jellycatspyjamas · 22/01/2021 10:14

@Jellycatspyjamas I said near enough exactly that in the last post of mine you chose to quote except you decided to leave that bit out...

No, you said

I have also thanked those that have given me ideas of how I can discuss with my DD and use it as a very clever example of fact/science where we don’t always like the outcome...

Which sounds like a Dodo discussion to me.

WINKINGatyourage · 22/01/2021 10:14

I have said since my 2nd post that I would explain it from another POV and help her see the real answer but this seems to have been overlooked.

You also stated very firmly you wouldn’t tell your DD she was wrong Confused

lottiegarbanzo · 22/01/2021 10:16

It's not a 'sensitive and emotive' subject. It's the difference between the word 'should' and the word 'can'. Statement of opinion versus statement of fact.

Your dd, you and half the thread have been sidetracked by your emotions, to the extent that you have set aside your critical thinking skills and lost sight of the question being asked.

In that sense it was a very clever choice of example and you've fallen into its trap.

It comes back to that classic exam advice: Answer the question. That is, read and make sure you have understood the question before answering. Answering what you think the question was about rather than what the question actually was, is likely to earn you no marks.

Brainwave89 · 22/01/2021 10:16

I fully take the point that teachers are working flat out at the moment as a previous poster noted. That said, as an adult I found this a bit goady and I would have pushed back against it if this came up anywhere in a workshop at work, so as a teenage girl (when I was much more strident in my views), I would have kicked off. As her mum I would be quite pleased she raised this TBH.

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 22/01/2021 10:18

I'm asking based on the opinion I've formed from your posts. Is she the type of person who knows her own mind and engages in respectful, informed debate or is she the sort that just tries to bulldoze people with her opinions? If she is the latter then that's what I'd be discussing with her. And I'd be saying the same if she was a boy before anyone goes reaching hard and says 'would you be saying the same thing if she was a boy?'

midnightstar66 · 22/01/2021 10:18

@lottiegarbanzo explains it perfectly and has saved me lots of typing!

WINKINGatyourage · 22/01/2021 10:19

@lottiegarbanzo

It's not a 'sensitive and emotive' subject. It's the difference between the word 'should' and the word 'can'. Statement of opinion versus statement of fact.

Your dd, you and half the thread have been sidetracked by your emotions, to the extent that you have set aside your critical thinking skills and lost sight of the question being asked.

In that sense it was a very clever choice of example and you've fallen into its trap.

It comes back to that classic exam advice: Answer the question. That is, read and make sure you have understood the question before answering. Answering what you think the question was about rather than what the question actually was, is likely to earn you no marks.

This
HamAndButterSandwich · 22/01/2021 10:20

It is opinion but it's a ridiculously poor choice of example. Technically 'You shouldn't rape people' is an opinion but I wouldn't choose it as an example of one on a sheet like that.

NataliaOsipova · 22/01/2021 10:20

It's not a 'sensitive and emotive' subject. It's the difference between the word 'should' and the word 'can'. Statement of opinion versus statement of fact.

Perfectly put.

wildraisins · 22/01/2021 10:21

@lottiegarbanzo

It's not a 'sensitive and emotive' subject. It's the difference between the word 'should' and the word 'can'. Statement of opinion versus statement of fact.

Your dd, you and half the thread have been sidetracked by your emotions, to the extent that you have set aside your critical thinking skills and lost sight of the question being asked.

In that sense it was a very clever choice of example and you've fallen into its trap.

It comes back to that classic exam advice: Answer the question. That is, read and make sure you have understood the question before answering. Answering what you think the question was about rather than what the question actually was, is likely to earn you no marks.

I think in fact you are the one being sidetracked. A lot of posters here are answering the question on the worksheet when actually that's not what needs to be discussed - no one here should have trouble answering a question on a Y9/10 science worksheet. There is a huge wider context and issues surrounding it which you are missing.

We aren't talking about an exam. We are talking about a teenage girl who is upset and angry, and how she and her mum deal with that - that is inherently emotional and complex.

To focus only on the actual question asked here is blind.

Fufumuji · 22/01/2021 10:23

I have said since my 2nd post that I would explain it from another POV and help her see the real answer but this seems to have been overlooked

Will you tell her she is wrong though?

Morred · 22/01/2021 10:23

As others have said, it's the should that makes it an opinion.

If the statement was 'women can work in any area they choose', that is fact that can be proven or disproven. (It's not correct, as it happens, because there are areas in which women can't work e.g. various religous roles). But that would open up an interesting discussion about a) factual statements can be wrong and b) the different senses of can. Does it mean can=permitted by law? can=physically/mentally capable? I would argue that women could work in any area, but they are not permitted to do so.

Any of those statements with can is different from a scientific fact such as the sun is hotter than the earth or gravity causes tides.

Original poster
Adviceneededalways · 22/01/2021 10:23

@Jellycatspyjamas and that is most definitely you’re opinion.

OP posts:
Original poster
Adviceneededalways · 22/01/2021 10:25

@WINKINGatyourage I also said their is more than one way of encouraging a child to reflect and come to a different answer!

OP posts:
wildraisins · 22/01/2021 10:27

@Morred

As others have said, it's the should that makes it an opinion.

If the statement was 'women can work in any area they choose', that is fact that can be proven or disproven. (It's not correct, as it happens, because there are areas in which women can't work e.g. various religous roles). But that would open up an interesting discussion about a) factual statements can be wrong and b) the different senses of can. Does it mean can=permitted by law? can=physically/mentally capable? I would argue that women could work in any area, but they are not permitted to do so.

Any of those statements with can is different from a scientific fact such as the sun is hotter than the earth or gravity causes tides.

I don't understand why so many people are debating whether or not it is fact or opinion.

This is a question pitched at 14 year olds, it's easy, and it's also a technicality. The semantically/ grammatically correct answer to the question on the worksheet is obviously not the underlying issue here.

The issue is that the teacher opened up a massive emotive subject and didn't give OP's daughter the appropraite time or space to explore it, beacuse they did it in a science lesson.

It was poor teaching.

WINKINGatyourage · 22/01/2021 10:30

I also said their is more than one way of encouraging a child to reflect and come to a different answer!

So will you?

And why are you so afraid of using the word “wrong” with your Dd?

ChickenyChick · 22/01/2021 10:31

I also think it's simple: it is opinion, not fact, because of the word "should"

If it would have said "can" it would have been different.

But "should" indicates it's an opinion.

You can feel very strongly about an opinion, but that does not make it a fact.

It's actually very relevant, and good to discuss, as a lot of modern debate (on Twitter etc.) is all about people wanting their opinions to be seen by others as facts. In fact, a lot of the debate about Trans rights boils down to this

lottiegarbanzo · 22/01/2021 10:32

wildraisins I've discussed some of the other issues upthread. Different responses to different points made by others.

Graciebobcat · 22/01/2021 10:32

I think it's a good example, it should be a fact but it's definitely an opinion.

Your DD needs to learn to pick her battles more wisely.

Jellycatspyjamas · 22/01/2021 10:33

The issue is that the teacher opened up a massive emotive subject and didn't give OP's daughter the appropraite time or space to explore it, beacuse they did it in a science lesson.

The girl had a massive, emotional response, that doesn’t mean the task in itself was massive and emotive. If she reacts like that every time she hears something she fundamentally disagrees with she’s in for a hard time. As parents it’s part of our job to recognise and help our children regulate their emotional responses, not fuel the fire.

CorianderBee · 22/01/2021 10:35

But maybe the fact it's a horrible example was exactly the point - to prove sometimes it's hard to tell your opinion from a fact.

And that is an opinion.