Do you think giving birth in Belfast will become a thing post Brexit?

[Lalaloveyou2020]

Since 2005 a person born on the island of Ireland (including NI) to Irish or British parents has a right to apply for Irish citizenship/a passport. I read an article in the FT yesterday discussing the obstacles UK business travellers would face in a post Brexit word, which ended with this:

"There’s one group that will do well out of this: UK-based EU passport holders, who will be able to advertise themselves, both to British employers and to EU service buyers, as being able to travel unhindered around the bloc. Best-placed of all will be Irish passport holders, who can not only travel in the EU, but live and work freely in the UK too. Cecil Rhodes, the British mining magnate and colonialist, once described being English as “the greatest prize in the lottery of life”. Post-Brexit, it’s the Irish who hold the winning ticket."

If you really really wanted your child to have access to the EU in the future, would you be willing to move to Belfast for your birth so that your child could then claim an Irish Passport?

This is meant as a light-hearted discussion more than anything else, though if anyone from NI could chime in on how difficult it would actually be to do, please do so! Reason for going to Northern Ireland over the Republic is the access to the NHS and an automatic right to be both Irish and British at birth.

But British citizens by descent can only pass on their British citizenship to children born in the UK. British citizens by birth don’t have that restriction.

I think its actually UK and Ireland and nowhere else, but I'd have to check.

[quote Lalaloveyou2020]@DGRossetti was it the Dezosa case about the woman who wanted to apply for an EU spousal visa for her husband but it was contentious as she lived in NI and was classed (wrongly) as being both British and Irish.[/quote]
She was classed as British and they required her to renounce her british citizenship in order to claim her Irish citizenship, completely contrary to the GFA.

That's not quite true, the DeSouza case was specifically regarding freedom of movement in the EU, and she was correctly (According to may experts in that field) or not (according to others) assessed as being both British and Irish.

Listen, seriously, for all those who were off on the day they did the ten minutes of Irish history - I am sitting here reading a book called A History of Ireland in 250 episodes.

I've only got to about 1250 and it is already a LITANY of 'and then King John/Henry/whoever used his bigger physical might to crush/kill/throw into a prison and starve to death a mother and child/starve/rout/burn/oppress.

Spoiler: it's not going to get any better for the next 750 years.

Even without the bloodshed and pillage and oppression, not to mention the scurrilous painting of the Irish as a drunken, aggressive, incontinent boor who thus NEEDED to be ruled for their own benefit (oh, and who by? what a massive convenient coincidence, the English)... there is a massive FAMINE English people like to studiously ignore, a home secretary blithely chatting about cutting off food to the island to intimidate them into obedience, and currently empty shelves in the shops of NI because a Brexit we didn't vote for has ended in us being completely shafted in terms of supply chains, bollocksed up customs regulations etc.

So to come on in a time like this, when our HSC is chronically underfunded, where our survival and recovery rates from various diseases is lower than the rest of the UK and then casually say 'oh yes, I have zero interest in all of that, you know, icky blood and territory stuff, but with the GREATEST OF IRONY, after my country DENIED YOU YOUR NATIONALITY FOR DECADES, I'm just going to RUTHLESSLY, CARELESSLY AND THOUGHTLESSLY exploit it for my own selfish benefit, do NOT expect people to be like, oh yeah wow yay, come on!

I'm not even from a nationalist background and I have the rage.

I can see why this is a selfish idea - good for the individual, bad for NI. But I'm saying this from the security of having the option of Irish passports for myself and my dc, even though we do not live there.
So I think it is unacceptable, but understandable iyswim.

It costs money to give birth in Dublin. It's free in Belfast.

I read this post and assumed that the poster means that it’s free for British citizens to give birth in NI (because they’re entitled to use the NHS) but that they would have to pay to give birth in Dublin - we’re presumably not entitled to free healthcare in other EU countries now we’ve left the EU (not actually sure what was agreed on this point though)?

In answer to your question OP, I personally wouldn’t. I hate Brexit and mourn the loss of my European citizenship and my child’s European citizenship, but I feel that as a society we’ve made our beds and have to lie in them now. I also think that the next generation will realise what was stolen from them, and as many of the people who voted for it die, the younger generations will pressurise future governments to apply to rejoin. But for that to happen they’ll have to feel the loss - which they won’t if we go around trying to get them EU citizenship by the back door. So I think it’s for the greater good to accept it for now.

Farage ensured his kids had German passports though, didn’t he. Dickhead.

@ButwhereisMYcoffee

🙌🏻🙌🏻

To be accurate, there was no famine. There was the willful starvation of the Irish by the British. In a famine there is no food, and there was always plenty of food, it was just eaten/exported by the British.

@OwMyNeck

This actually contravenes the good friday agreement (google the de Souza case) but hey, ho, we know how much store the british government put on international agreements

It doesn't, since the comment was about a child born in Ireland, not NI.

Maybe read the post I was responding to and quoted from?

It states: Northern Ireland has the NHS though which is why it might be easier, also the baby is automatically British but entitled to Irish citizenship , so I assume registering for child benefit etc would be easier with an NI birth.

So the comment was very much about a child born in NI.

I hope not. I worked in a maternity hospital in NI 2001-2003 and the ones coming to give birth put a MASSIVE strain on things. Women would arrive saying that they had come "on holiday", they were mostly asylum seekers from England but there were also a number who flew from China especially. I remember one lady who had gone into labour on the flight on the way over and she just made it into the delivery suite on time. She didn't have a word of english, no antenatal notes, nothing. I suppose we really take a western passport/nationality for granted.

I read this post and assumed that the poster means that it’s free for British citizens to give birth in NI (because they’re entitled to use the NHS) but that they would have to pay to give birth in Dublin

They may have meant that, but it is not the case.

Ireland is not just another EU country in regards to the UK. There are a network of special arrangements, many of which predate the EU and carry on afterwards.

@OwMyNeck

To be accurate, there was no famine. There was the willful starvation of the Irish by the British. In a famine there is no food, and there was always plenty of food, it was just eaten/exported by the British.

See also: India. With civil servants of the day complaining that spoiled the arrangement of their A-Z of British Genocides in the FCO.

@ButwhereisMYcoffee

Listen, seriously, for all those who were off on the day they did the ten minutes of Irish history - I am sitting here reading a book called A History of Ireland in 250 episodes.

I've only got to about 1250 and it is already a LITANY of 'and then King John/Henry/whoever used his bigger physical might to crush/kill/throw into a prison and starve to death a mother and child/starve/rout/burn/oppress.

Spoiler: it's not going to get any better for the next 750 years.

Even without the bloodshed and pillage and oppression, not to mention the scurrilous painting of the Irish as a drunken, aggressive, incontinent boor who thus NEEDED to be ruled for their own benefit (oh, and who by? what a massive convenient coincidence, the English)... there is a massive FAMINE English people like to studiously ignore, a home secretary blithely chatting about cutting off food to the island to intimidate them into obedience, and currently empty shelves in the shops of NI because a Brexit we didn't vote for has ended in us being completely shafted in terms of supply chains, bollocksed up customs regulations etc.

So to come on in a time like this, when our HSC is chronically underfunded, where our survival and recovery rates from various diseases is lower than the rest of the UK and then casually say 'oh yes, I have zero interest in all of that, you know, icky blood and territory stuff, but with the GREATEST OF IRONY, after my country DENIED YOU YOUR NATIONALITY FOR DECADES, I'm just going to RUTHLESSLY, CARELESSLY AND THOUGHTLESSLY exploit it for my own selfish benefit, do NOT expect people to be like, oh yeah wow yay, come on!

I'm not even from a nationalist background and I have the rage.

@OwMyNeck

That's not quite true, the DeSouza case was specifically regarding freedom of movement in the EU, and she was correctly (According to may experts in that field) or not (according to others) assessed as being both British and Irish.

Except the GFA gives her the right to be Irish OR British OR both. She considered herself only Irish, as is her right under the GFA, a right that the british government refused to recognise. She was told she needed to revoke her british citizenship in order to be recognised as Irish only.

ButwhereisMYcoffee
What she said with fucking great, big knobs on.
Honestly OP take your head out of your entitled arse.

Also, as a small aside, could British people PLEASE learn the difference between GB and UK. They are not the same and cannot be used interchangeably.

I wish I’d done it so that DD would have citizenship of an EU country. That would have meant the world to me. If there was the option of buying an EU passport, legally for £10,000, I would done that instead of paying off my mortgage. As it happens, I do have Irish ancestry, but it’s not recent enough.

I understand wanting the best for your children. I understand them not wanting to be stuck on an ever regressing island but can you not see how it is disgusting to abuse an island the British have already abuse to the hilt, for personal gain?

@OwMyNeck

To be accurate, there was no famine. There was the willful starvation of the Irish by the British. In a famine there is no food, and there was always plenty of food, it was just eaten/exported by the British.

Exactly this, perhaps watch hunger a story of the famine by Cork University it was on RTÉ it will explain everything

Fuck me, this thread has gone off on one, hasn't it.

Lol no. Bugger off. Can't shaft us with Brexit then milk us for access to the EU when it suits

oh yes, I have zero interest in all of that, you know, icky blood and territory stuff, but with the GREATEST OF IRONY, after my country DENIED YOU YOUR NATIONALITY FOR DECADES, I'm just going to RUTHLESSLY, CARELESSLY AND THOUGHTLESSLY exploit it for my own selfish benefit, do NOT expect people to be like, oh yeah wow yay, come on!

THIS THIS THIS THIS

I want my child to have the same opportunities I had, especially as the UK is going downhill fast. Brexit taught me that I can’t afford to care about people who couldn’t care less about me.

What is a CTA then?

What does HSE mean?
Just Curious ?😕

Lol no. Bugger off. Can't shaft us with Brexit then milk us for access to the EU when it suits

In fairness, those who voted remain were shafted too and were not responsible for the mess. And weren't personally responsible for any of the history that went before either.

I'm Irish but a bit of perspective needs to be employed.

What is a CTA then?What does HSE mean?

Common Travel Area and Health Services Executive.

Fuck me, this thread has gone off on one, hasn't it.

With good reason, Mumsnet so often displays the derision and lofty imperialist eyes with which a good many Brits (mainly English) look at people who live on the island of Ireland.