.. to think we should scrap private schools?

[katnyps]

How can we ever have an equal opportunities society when people with more money can pay for their children to have a better education?

I know that there are exceptions to the rule, and great teachers in publicly funded schools, but I get the impression that influential roles in society are disproportionately represented by people paid for education... or am I wrong about this too?

I believe that Finland has one of the best (internationally recognised) education system in the world and (apologies if I'm not quite right here, but broadly speaking) that it is actually illegal there to charge for education?

Also, not all private schools have brilliant facilities or amazing teaching, some just fulfil a job - whether it be religious, wanting smaller classes, meeting a child care need or an ideology. They aren't all about better education or at least not in the general sense.

bluegovan
I would actually like to see those things happen too but I don’t believe most would if they thought they might lose some of their own advantage. People often can’t even see that they are beneficiaries of a system.

I know people who could afford to go private but feel it's wrong.

What? I won't send my own DC to a private school, even though it will benefit them, as it is not fair on the rest of the world?

OK, so I won't send my DC to tennis lessons or to learn the guitar, just in case they get good and make some money out of it because it won't be fair on others.

I know lots of these people too. They are virtue signalling hypocrites. If they think society is so unfair why don't they donate all their money to charity? I bet they don't. My bet is they have deep pockets and short arms and don't want to spend money on their DC. The tightest people I have met are the richest.

Yes, I see your point Blackberrycream, but, unlike the schools issue, I don't think there's any way to level the playing field with this one. It's not something you could define clearly enough to ban, even if you wanted to.

Would a ban include private music/dance/swimming lessons for example? How are they different from tutoring? Maybe my child likes maths and yours likes tennis - why should mine not get tuition if yours is allowed? What about children who are struggling because of a particular issue like ESL, dyslexia or having missed a lot of school through illness? Do we say they can't use private tutors? Or they can, but it's still banned for high ability children? What if I decide to tutor my own children in my degree subject? Or maybe I tutor all my friends' children too but don't charge for it? How on earth could we regulate/police this, even if we wanted to?

What I'd rather see is a lot better extra curricular provision in state schools, and more individually tailored help for students who are struggling in a particular subject, as well as interventions for particular demographics who are known to do badly in the current system. And if some parents choose to hothouse their children in some subjects, so be it.

@SpicyChickpeas

I know people who could afford to go private but feel it's wrong.

What? I won't send my own DC to a private school, even though it will benefit them, as it is not fair on the rest of the world?

OK, so I won't send my DC to tennis lessons or to learn the guitar, just in case they get good and make some money out of it because it won't be fair on others.

I know lots of these people too. They are virtue signalling hypocrites. If they think society is so unfair why don't they donate all their money to charity? I bet they don't. My bet is they have deep pockets and short arms and don't want to spend money on their DC. The tightest people I have met are the richest.

I've just dealt with the extra curricular/tutoring issue in pp.

Why should people solve political problems by private donations? That is just a small bit of sticking plaster compared to changing the system.

Most of my friends aren't virtue signalling hypocrites. I hope yours aren't either. I know they are anti-private education because it's the kind of issue I discuss with my friends,. They don't go around boasting about their money or their morals. I have some friends with children in private/public schools. I listen to their opinions. They are decent people too.

I'm sorry, but I think you just have little imagination if you think everyone else must have the same kind of motivations and opinions as you but just pretend not to.

@LilMidge01

Did you read the thread?

Of course most agree with OP. 8% of children attend private schooling. So even with a weight towards private schooling on mumsnet, the vast majority are obviously going to agree with the OP.

As evidenced in this thread

My Dad could have easily afforded to send us private but refused to as he genuinely believed we would succeed or fail wherever he sent us.

He was from a very poor background and ended up getting a PHD and a job in the city.

Mind you, it was a very nice state school so quite a safe stance to take.

I send my children private (sorry Dad) and my brother wouldn't dream of it.

Not many people could "easily afford" to send their kids private these days. A good one is upwards of 10k a term. That's 30k a year out of taxed income.

@Frodont

Not many people could "easily afford" to send their kids private these days. A good one is upwards of 10k a term. That's 30k a year out of taxed income.

To be fair, you’re talking about public schools. All the private schools around here are more like £5k a term. Some of them are incredibly good.

Yes, we have some cheaper ones near us, but the exam results are not much better than the (good) local state comprehensive, so I can't really understand why people bother.

@Enidblyton1

Day and prep? Up north?

Down here in SE there is a secondary private for £5k a term

@Frodont

Yes, we have some cheaper ones near us, but the exam results are not much better than the (good) local state comprehensive, so I can't really understand why people bother.

As has been pointed out Not just about the academics often

Any good sethy?

South East
Secondary school
£15k per year (well actually £16k - I just checked)
Amazing exam results - comparable to our nearest £30k school

Sorry @Frodont I don’t understand the question

@Enidblyton1
Which one?

I’m in SE and looking for secondary for my son!

@SpicyChickpeas

I know people who could afford to go private but feel it's wrong.

What? I won't send my own DC to a private school, even though it will benefit them, as it is not fair on the rest of the world?

OK, so I won't send my DC to tennis lessons or to learn the guitar, just in case they get good and make some money out of it because it won't be fair on others.

I know lots of these people too. They are virtue signalling hypocrites. If they think society is so unfair why don't they donate all their money to charity? I bet they don't. My bet is they have deep pockets and short arms and don't want to spend money on their DC. The tightest people I have met are the richest.

Absolutely!

@Seasaltyhair gosh you seem to think you know a lot about me - someone who could afford private but didn't!
Those who send privately still do those other things you know - the extra lessons and tutoring and everything else. They also tend to be ver ver middle class and so are offering their children a natural leg up to start with (as did we, sing mc, educated professionals). It's just we didn't then give our children the EXTRA leg up of paying.
And as it happens we didn't go down the tutoring route because our kids didn't need it. They did have music lessons though - amazingly some were done in the actual comprehensive. Imagine!

@Sethy38 I’ve messaged you

[quote scentedgeranium]@Seasaltyhair gosh you seem to think you know a lot about me - someone who could afford private but didn't!
Those who send privately still do those other things you know - the extra lessons and tutoring and everything else. They also tend to be ver ver middle class and so are offering their children a natural leg up to start with (as did we, sing mc, educated professionals). It's just we didn't then give our children the EXTRA leg up of paying.
And as it happens we didn't go down the tutoring route because our kids didn't need it. They did have music lessons though - amazingly some were done in the actual comprehensive. Imagine![/quote]
Ok

When you see school only as a sorting mechanism for opportunity, rather than something with inherent value, then abolishing private schools really benefits those who use them most.

Abolish private schools and my children will be no worse off than anybody else’s. At the same time my children will still have me as their mother, and I will have more money to lavish on them in other ways. Maybe buy them first flats instead.

Having being accused of being drunk on the IGCE thread I will just say surely there's a balance.

Arguably both sides have a point.

As I said before, there is a world of difference between what's spent per child in inner London schools and in rural Cornwall.. almost £3000 per child per year.

DD will hopefully be going private for secondary and the fees are a lot less than what I would expect to pay down south. We’re in yorkshire. Fees are £4,900 per month for y7-y9 and increase for GCSE years and again for 6th form.

Haberdashers girls senior is £19k (where my daughter went years ago). My twins' London day school is £17k . North London Collegiate where my other daughter went is about £20k. It is not the case that you have to spend £30k for the better academic good day schools. That is a boarding school fee. My sibling's children are in a private school in Yorkshire - fees are £14k a year.