To not understand the USA and immigration

[Sprockerdilerock]

Forgive me if I'm being a bit thick but I watched a documentary the other day about the Mexican border wall and it got me thinking.

The whole American ethos is meant to be about small government and freedom to make your own fortune etc. So how is it logically consistent for them to put a wall up stopping people from doing just that? Especially when you consider how new the country is - didn't a lot of Americans descend from Europeans being able to roam?

I just dont get it - it seems to be that the more conservative someone is the more anti immigration they are when logically it should be the opposite?

I suppose if you have a lot of people in the country who've arrived illegally, then they're not going to be able to pay tax as they're not on the system. And then there's healthcare etc.

Immigration is a difficult topic, really. Trump is just a racist bastard, though.

It's not logical. Most of the core principles of the US don't gel with typical (republican) views on many subjects.

@HollowTalk many undocumented immigrants in the US pay taxes. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/15/us/taxes-undocumented-immigrants/index.html

And considering they barely have a health and social care system for documented citizens then the undocumented immigrants don’t really benefit off that.

Yes I thought that about the healthcare situation. I could almost understand it a bit better if there was a socialist healthcare system like here

The core beliefs of the US swivelled quite dramatically very early in the twentieth century.

The wall is to stop illegal immigration. Just like England or anywhere else people can't just arrive illegally and expect residency. Countries are allowed to protect their borders.

Americans no less than Brits quite resent freeloaders.

Something that puzzles me is how ethnically diverse & not badly integrated too the midwest was historically and yet it's the stronghold of anti-immigration opinion now. eg., Kenosha or Indianapolis (relatives from there) - Very rich working class traditions of Polish, Irish, German, native American, blacks, Italian, Norwegian communities living side by side proud melting pot places.

So now their descendants all hate Mexicans.

Agree - the USA is a country of illegal immigrants, but want to keep out Mexicans. Couldn't make it up.

Just like England or anywhere else people can't just arrive illegally and expect residency.

The USA, where people arrived and stole the lands of Native Americans and then committed genocide?

Laand of the free and home of the brave . But then you look at the real USA and one thinks perhaps not.

"The USA, where people arrived and stole the lands of Native Americans and then committed genocide?"

Not up on my history enough to have an intellectual discussion, but old history can't surely come into the argument or we could talk of England and all the countries they "stole" or the Vikings or Normans, or where do we draw the line?
Surely modern counties aren't expected to just have open borders?

Conservatives want Capitalism but immigrants typically want socialism so not really a surprise you wouldn't people coming into the country with the opposite viewpoint to yourself.

@GeorgiaGirl52 I don't really understand what this has got to do with immigration, except well I assume you mean the Asian people there came from Asia.

But these 'the Blacks', where are they from? Are they a mix of ethnicities/nationalities? Are they Asians? Europeans? Africans? Australians? or your fellow Americans? What makes them immigrants?

Does anyone know an official statistic --what % of current Labour & Tory MPs are each 1st or 2nd generation immigrants?

I have a strong feeling that Tories are winning.

@lljkk

Does anyone know an official statistic --what % of current Labour & Tory MPs are each 1st or 2nd generation immigrants?

I have a strong feeling that Tories are winning.

This is a very socialist Tory government.

Ameruca, land of the free confuses the he’ll out of me. My husband is a citizen by birth although was born, raised and lives here but he has to file an American tax return every year and will have to pay a hefty bill if we ever sell a home. We stupidly made our children duel citizens too.

My Internet is messed up so I can't look them up quickly, but just compare actual Tory cabinet with shadow cabinet:

Sunak, Raab & Patel are all offspring of immigrants, for instance.

Actual American here. Capitalist kleptocrats destroyed the American working class by deregulation which allowed the easy transfer of manufacturing anywhere in the world it was cheapest, then distracted those who lost their stable, working-class income by whipping up hatred against hispanic immigrants (who, by in large, didn't work in manufacturing, but in care or as farm laborers, jobs that the white working class never really did to begin with).

It was all a big con, and the same one is going on here in the UK (where I live now - hey, I'm an immigrant myself). The immigrants didn't take our jobs - they work their asses off to pick our vegetables and wipe gran's arse in the care home and in a few years when we have no locally produced food (no one to pick it, nowhere to export it to thanks to the brexit idiocy) and we end up dying sitting in our own shit because there's literally no one to work in care, DEFINITELY not enough nurses or doctors... well, we'll probably still find a way to blame it on immigrants.

There is an interesting clash of narratives - the US was founded and built by immigrants (Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free etc) but it’s a different story in modern times.

It’s a balance, like anything else.

Most Americans are in favor of immigration. Most are against illegal immigration. No country would survive if they just threw their doors open and said have at it.

The bigger question in my mind is why don’t the countries that have mass exodus’ to the US do something for their own citizens. I would imagine that most people would rather stay close to family and friends vs. risk exploitation and a shadow life in another country.

I work closely with people in Mexico, and honestly feel a lot of empathy for them. Despite having advanced education and good paying careers they are not safe in their own communities. There is a saying I’ve heard repeated... “It’s better to live poor in the US than rich in my own country”

It’s also very telling that Mexico doesn’t allow in illegal immigrants from other countries, such as Guatemala. But yet the US is filled with a bunch of meanies 🙄

Sharma & Kwarteng, too, so that's 5 in the cabinet that are children of immigrants themselves.

Labour shadow cabinet is bigger (?): Lammy, Milliband, Debbonaire
? Griffith? daCova? Gill?

But the Tory examples are higher profile individuals.

@Sparklesocks

There is an interesting clash of narratives - the US was founded and built by immigrants (Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free etc) but it’s a different story in modern times.

No clash in narratives, the US was built with legal immigrants and to this day welcomes legal immigrants.

@saltinesandcoffeecups I disagree unfortunately from my time in the US.