AIBU to be completely on the fence? Straight men playing 'gay' roles

[Wheresmykimchi]

Article here - www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/showbiz-news/corrie-star-hits-back-after-19618647

Russell T Davies has decided to cast only gay men in roles for an AIDS drama.

Peter Ash , who is a straight man playing a gay man in Coronation Street , disagrees.

I'm usually a dog with a bone , irritating poster on topics I feel passionately about and LGBT is one but on this I just can't decide.

I can see Russell's point given the nature of the drama , and I'm never sure I agree with people playing 'gay' , in theory

But then I look at the gay characters in soaps in recent years , Peter's character being am excellent example along with Aaron Lindsay in Emmerdale , Kate Connor and Sophie Webster in Coronation Street , and see Peters point that the whole idea is that there is no such thing as acting 'gay', they are playing people.

I'm so on the fence I've got splinters. AIBU?

I can't think of many gay men on a soap playing a straight man.

Not soaps but:

Jim Parsons in Big Bang Theory
Neil Patrick Harris How I Met Your Mother
John Mahoney Frasier
Luke Evans was Gaston in the live action Beauty and the Beast he was also a straight character in Fact and Furious

Need more?

@supportivemyarse

I was on the fence because gay people shouldn't be disadvantaged because of their sexuality but I have to wonder how would RTD know if anyone auditioning might be gay? do gay actors attend auditions humming "I will survive" and waving little rainbow flags? What does RTD expect actors to do in the audition to get the role?

By this reasoning, surely straight roles can't be cast with gay actors? Isn't acting pretending to be someone you're not?

If anyone had asked me my sexuality at a job interview they'd be in very deep shit. One of my assistants is gay, I didn't know when I hired him and only found out when he chatted to me about his personal life. Funnily enough you can't tell just by looking or speaking to him.

Davies typically invites actors to audition rather than having open auditions. The person playing Ritchie for example in It’s a sin was specifically asked to perform that role.

Not sure what the I will survive is a reference to?

@lljkk

It's pretending... everyone who acts is pretending to be something they aren't.

I would have thought fairness of opportunity means any role is open to anyone unless there is something very obvious to their presentation that contradicts who the character needs to be for the story to work as meant.

For that reason I think it's fine for actors to play other races, too. I accept that my view won't come back into fashion until about 100 years from now.

I do too, but the issue is in how they look.

However , if you look at the West End , they manage it.

Eponine in Les Mis has changed race many times over many productions , as have many of those cast in Les Mis and Wicked. Donkey in Shrek is nearly always black, as is Titan in Little Mermaid. None of these roles require a change.

We are yet to see a white Nala. The issue being I suppose that in order to play Nala, who is African , they would need to adjust their features in a way that couldn't be done without being offensive.

But Jodie Whittaker can be Russian, and Anne Hathaway can be whatever the bloody hell she is supposed to be in The Witches.

@SimonJT I think the PP meant I am what I am as a flippancy to the fact gay people announce their arrival. Or at least I hope so.

@Snoozysnoozy

I can't think of many gay men on a soap playing a straight man.

Not soaps but:

Jim Parsons in Big Bang Theory
Neil Patrick Harris How I Met Your Mother
John Mahoney Frasier
Luke Evans was Gaston in the live action Beauty and the Beast he was also a straight character in Fact and Furious

Need more?

Oh id forgotten about Luke! He is a prime example of what I mean about things having changed, and the cries of 'ooh I didn't know he was gay'.

Yes. Except then you get to the situation Netflix are in where they have mandated that every show must have a trans person

Don't even get me started on Star trek discovery. Very obviously female character made 'non binary' because they are in real life and whose boyfriend is played by someone obviously born female. I've always loved Star Trek but this woke stuff is so forced. Imagine the kick off if the part had g0ne to a 'cis' female.

@VanGoghsDog

Like the 19 year old Alexander Hamilton and later his 9 year old son

@VanGoghsDog

Renee Zellweger.doing British

Ah, well, if it puts a stop to that horror, I'm all for it!!!

You take that back!

@VanGoghsDog

Renee Zellweger.doing British

Ah, well, if it puts a stop to that horror, I'm all for it!!!

Her accent was awful!

But British people haven’t been heavily repressed and discriminated against. Groups that have still aren’t appropriately represented, white and straight are still the default in the acting world.

Surely its a hard balance though - it must be hard for a straight man to go for a gay role without being too gay to cause offence but gay enough to play the role well, if you will.

All things being equal, then yes, anyone should be able to play any role, regardless of sexuality. However, all things are not equal. Openly gay actors are rarely cast as straight male leads, so to cast straight actors for the few roles available for gay actors seems grossly unfair.

Oh I was going to say the opposite, I think gay actors get cast as straight characters and no one cares. Jim Parsons in the Big Bang theory and Neil Patrick Harris in how I met your mother are two examples that immediately spring to mind. I know that’s only two, but they were main characters in two massively popular sitcoms that ran for years. (Neil PH’s husband was also in it as a straight man, but a much smaller part).
Andrew Scott is another example (hot priest in fleabag - I know he’s done other things, this was just the immediate straight role that I thought of). I don’t remember any one even raising as a point of interest that these actors are gay. None of the articles I’ve seen about bringing back sex and the city have mentioned Cynthia Nixon’s sexuality.

@Wheresmykimchi

Surely its a hard balance though - it must be hard for a straight man to go for a gay role without being too gay to cause offence but gay enough to play the role well, if you will.

What do you mean by too gay?

(If you have ever been to a casting call they are often very bizarre).

There are quite a few openly gay actors who play straight (barney from HIMYM!!). I think the moment you say only gay people can play gay people you risk that being reversed.

The whole point of a good actor is they can play anyone surely.

I don't understand why people are saying 'but it's acting'?

Surely the issue isn't that a straight actor couldn't pretend to be gay, or a gay actor pretend to be straight - the issue is that if you pay a straight actor and give him visibility, that means you're not giving the job to a gay one.

In my line of work, which has nothing to do with acting, it's very common to see job adverts saying 'we especially welcome applications from [eg] women and ethic minorities who are under-represented on our staff' or 'we welcome applications from LGBT+ candidates who are underrepresented'.

I see that there's a difference between encouraging people to apply and saying flat-out you won't hire a person not in that minority group, but clearly Davies feels quite confident he can find enough good gay actors, so ... why not?

I think if you're creating something from scratch and it'll have characters who are gay from the outset then yes, it's probably a good idea to cast gay actors. However, in soaps in particular, character arcs change and develop. Sophie Webster has been a character since newborn, the girl who plays her (not watched for years) has been doing so since a teenager I think? So sophie being gay wasn't how she was written, it's what has developed. In theory I have no beef with straight playing gay or vice versa. In real life people are rarely as good looking as the actors playing them. Should we take issue with every little difference?! It's acting.

As long as it works both ways I can't get worked up about it - I'm sure gay actors wouldn't like to be restricted to only gay roles! Pretty sure that sexual orientation is a protected characteristic so cannot be demanded to be declared and you can take an employer to court for discrimination!

[quote Wheresmykimchi]@VanGoghsDog

Like the 19 year old Alexander Hamilton and later his 9 year old son [/quote]
I don't know what that is but I saw the stage play of The Kite Runner and all the roles were played by adults, even the flashbacks to when they were kids.

It was fine.

I suppose the events around AIDS really was about being gay and if gay people are saying it's important that gay people show that then it is.

I'm on the fence too but I guess that's a luxury as I'm not a gay man. I wouldn't like it if men played women in a drama about abortion for example.

Sorry for my horrible grammar 😱

I've been to a lot of life theatre and I can assure you many gay men are cast in straight roles and they simply hire the best for the role (ditto colour blind casting).

Sorry but gay men are not underrepresented in theatre and film. Black people, people with disabilities, neurodiverse people, women over 25, there's an argument to be made. But gay men? There wouldn't be an industry without them. Thinking about my teenage swoons, half of them were.

Representation is important. But gay men have been playing many roles successfully for decades. In the olden days it was shit and they had to pretend but it isn't like that now.

I don't disagree with Russel in this case, but generally, it's quite the nonsense that gay men aren't in acting.

Acting is exactly that. Acting.

In my opinion anyone should be given the opportunity to audition for any role regardless of sexuality.

Imagine if gay people were prevented from playing straight characters?

I suspect the whole purpose of Davies’s outburst is to garner free publicity for his series. Acting is acting. What does he want? Never for gay men to play straight roles only gay ones? That is the logical outcome of this argument. The point of being an actor, of either sex, is to be able to get inside the skin of the character you are playing. That's the craft

If we were to take it seriously [which the virtue signalling BBC no doubt will] then Daniel Day Lewis in 'My left foot' or Ben Kingsley's Ghandi will now be branded "problematic".

This is all risible nonsense from the professional gay lobby which ran out of serious things to complain about decades ago.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Sorry but gay men are not underrepresented in theatre and film. Black people, people with disabilities, neurodiverse people, women over 25, there's an argument to be made. But gay men? There wouldn't be an industry without them. Thinking about my teenage swoons, half of them were.

Representation is important. But gay men have been playing many roles successfully for decades. In the olden days it was shit and they had to pretend but it isn't like that now.

I don't disagree with Russel in this case, but generally, it's quite the nonsense that gay men aren't in acting.

I'm not saying gay men aren't in acting. But it is still relatively unusual for an openly gay man to have a certain kind of career trajectory (gay Bond, for example). It's definitely changing a lot. But I would wonder if this is the sort of thing he's thinking about.

I'm sure there are still plenty of gay men, and lesbians, who don't advertise their sexuality early in their careers for fear of being typecast.

Exactly. Only straight actors to play straight roles will never work. There aren't enough straight actors.