AIBU to be completely on the fence? Straight men playing 'gay' roles

[Wheresmykimchi]

Article here - www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/showbiz-news/corrie-star-hits-back-after-19618647

Russell T Davies has decided to cast only gay men in roles for an AIDS drama.

Peter Ash , who is a straight man playing a gay man in Coronation Street , disagrees.

I'm usually a dog with a bone , irritating poster on topics I feel passionately about and LGBT is one but on this I just can't decide.

I can see Russell's point given the nature of the drama , and I'm never sure I agree with people playing 'gay' , in theory

But then I look at the gay characters in soaps in recent years , Peter's character being am excellent example along with Aaron Lindsay in Emmerdale , Kate Connor and Sophie Webster in Coronation Street , and see Peters point that the whole idea is that there is no such thing as acting 'gay', they are playing people.

I'm so on the fence I've got splinters. AIBU?

Russell has done something amazing in the TV landscape in the way he has put gay characters in the heart of everything he writes. He has made gay characters prime time TV.

And he has enough clowt now to make casting something that he’s involved in.
If he wants to make this a policy on his shows then he has every right to do so.

However, I wish he hadn’t opened this can of worms for everyone else.
It’s a long time since he’s struggled to get a green light on a project and had to get the biggest possible star he could to push it over the line.
It’s a long time since he had no say whatsoever in casting/budget etc.
It’s a long time since he’s faced the reality of making TV.

@VanGoghsDog

True. ..but there is no denying that stage John Barrowman is camp.

Well, maybe he wasn't at the audition? Maybe whatever report said he didn't get it for "not being gay enough" wasn't true?

He's confirmed that himself - I wouldn't post that without checking.

Eric McCormack who did play Will says that nowadays it would be a gay man cast but he was glad to be the straight man ambassador.

I agree with Jonathan Pie on this. While I have some sympathy, and think that gay people (men and women) need to be castors generally, surely this is why it’s called acting?

Doesn’t Ian McKellan also do a think where he says “I’m not a wizard, so I imagined what it would be like to be one, and acted in that way”?

@VanCleefArpels

Plenty of gay actors (open or closeted) play straight (see Pembrokeshire Murders on telly at the moment for example) primarily because there are fewer gay characters in film tv and theatre.

If we take the line that actors need to be able to have lived experience to play a role then taken to its (il)logical conclusion only actors that have suffered in a car crash can play an accident victim, only women who have lost a child can play a grieving mother, and only adopted actors can play a character searching for a birth parent.

RTD means well and I applaud the move towards inclusion and diversity but it’s called “acting” for a reason.

I agree on all fronts there I have to say.

But maybe it's a representation issue as opposed to an acting one...

Further splinters.

Similarish thread on this a few days ago.

I agree with Davies, gay actors have fewer opportunities compared to their straight colleagues. Giving a gay role (there aren’t many) to a straight actor takes a job from a gay actor, where as most acting jobs are straight characters, so a gay actor playing a straight actor doesn’t lead to the same job denial as straight roles are ten a penny.

If gay and straight roles were more equal it wouldn’t be as much as a problem.

I also disagree with an actor pretending to have a disability unless the character suffers an illness etc. We would do an actors make up to look like they had down syndrome, so we shouldn’t put an able bodied actor in a wheelchair.

Gay actors and musicians are still told to hide their sexuality when they have media training, the same thing doesn’t happen to straight people.

Ian McKellen funnily enough is an excellent example of a gay man who has had an incredible acting career and I would struggle to find anything that actually relates to his own persona or sexuality.

I was on the fence because gay people shouldn't be disadvantaged because of their sexuality but I have to wonder how would RTD know if anyone auditioning might be gay? do gay actors attend auditions humming "I will survive" and waving little rainbow flags? What does RTD expect actors to do in the audition to get the role?

By this reasoning, surely straight roles can't be cast with gay actors? Isn't acting pretending to be someone you're not?

If anyone had asked me my sexuality at a job interview they'd be in very deep shit. One of my assistants is gay, I didn't know when I hired him and only found out when he chatted to me about his personal life. Funnily enough you can't tell just by looking or speaking to him.

@VanCleefArpels

Plenty of gay actors (open or closeted) play straight (see Pembrokeshire Murders on telly at the moment for example) primarily because there are fewer gay characters in film tv and theatre.

If we take the line that actors need to be able to have lived experience to play a role then taken to its (il)logical conclusion only actors that have suffered in a car crash can play an accident victim, only women who have lost a child can play a grieving mother, and only adopted actors can play a character searching for a birth parent.

RTD means well and I applaud the move towards inclusion and diversity but it’s called “acting” for a reason.

It would make it difficult to cast someone to play people like Ted Bundy etc. After all, not many have the experience of being a serial killer or being executed...

I agree it’s acting. If heterosexuals can only act as heterosexuals and gay as gay, what about bi? Can they do both or neither?

@SimonJT

Similarish thread on this a few days ago.

I agree with Davies, gay actors have fewer opportunities compared to their straight colleagues. Giving a gay role (there aren’t many) to a straight actor takes a job from a gay actor, where as most acting jobs are straight characters, so a gay actor playing a straight actor doesn’t lead to the same job denial as straight roles are ten a penny.

If gay and straight roles were more equal it wouldn’t be as much as a problem.

I also disagree with an actor pretending to have a disability unless the character suffers an illness etc. We would do an actors make up to look like they had down syndrome, so we shouldn’t put an able bodied actor in a wheelchair.

Gay actors and musicians are still told to hide their sexuality when they have media training, the same thing doesn’t happen to straight people.

Missed that Simon, apologies.

I don't think there are many examples of actors playing characters born with disabilities.

True , but as posted upthread young men are told to hide their relationships.

Totally agree on the job opportunity front.

@SnowFields quite - I'm not sure Zac Efron had the years of murdering experience...

I don't think Russell T Davies has ever said that straight men shouldn't ever play gay roles, he just personally wants to cast more gay men in his own shows which is absolutely fine.

And what about the lesbians? Loads of great parts around exploring the intricacies and glories of female sexuality, int there...

Oh and I obviously know Jonathan Pie isn’t real

@supportivemyarse

I was on the fence because gay people shouldn't be disadvantaged because of their sexuality but I have to wonder how would RTD know if anyone auditioning might be gay? do gay actors attend auditions humming "I will survive" and waving little rainbow flags? What does RTD expect actors to do in the audition to get the role?

By this reasoning, surely straight roles can't be cast with gay actors? Isn't acting pretending to be someone you're not?

If anyone had asked me my sexuality at a job interview they'd be in very deep shit. One of my assistants is gay, I didn't know when I hired him and only found out when he chatted to me about his personal life. Funnily enough you can't tell just by looking or speaking to him.

I would argue that the world has progressed. Sexuality is far more fluid. People are more accepting (we still aren't there but we are progressing ). People don't feel the need to state their sexuality as a defence shield. People are who they are.

I find the shock of people amusing when they realise Cara Delevingne is gay.

@LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett

And what about the lesbians? Loads of great parts around exploring the intricacies and glories of female sexuality, int there...

On mainstream soaps , I'd say yes.

Hmm, the problem is where do we stop? Can an American play a British person? Can an atheist play a Christian?

@Josette77

I think actors are paid to act. I don't see the issue. Can gay actors play "straight"?

Andrew Scott certainly managed it as the hot priest in fleabag.

Surely though...Dons tins hat.

I appreciate they are two separate things and I'm not comparing LGBT to BLM - however....

If Alexander Hamilton can choose to cast BAME in his own production , as the artistic director if you will, then RTD can do the same.

But maybe it's a representation issue as opposed to an acting one...

Yes. Except then you get to the situation Netflix are in where they have mandated that every show must have a trans person. Not actually playing a trans person, but playing the sex they identify as.

It's bizarre.

@GodOfPhwoar

Hmm, the problem is where do we stop? Can an American play a British person? Can an atheist play a Christian?

Quite. What about Jodie thingy and her many accents? Renee Zellweger.doing British and Orlando bloom for that matter?

Or thingy in Johnny English being a French camp king...

It's pretending... everyone who acts is pretending to be something they aren't.

I would have thought fairness of opportunity means any role is open to anyone unless there is something very obvious to their presentation that contradicts who the character needs to be for the story to work as meant.

For that reason I think it's fine for actors to play other races, too. I accept that my view won't come back into fashion until about 100 years from now.

@GodOfPhwoar

Hmm, the problem is where do we stop? Can an American play a British person? Can an atheist play a Christian?

And what about age? I'm watching The Serpent and the guy plays the main character at various ages. Presumably they'd need to use three or four different actors if he couldn't.

I guess it's down to the acting quality for me. Being bisexual I've rolled my eyes hard at depictions of a bisexual woman AND when the media gets all excited about outing someone. But I've also enjoyed some depictions too. If you're playing a sexuality that's not yours AND it's part of the piece then you need to be good at your job. If you can't act why have you been cast.

araiwa
I couldn't give a toss if an actor's sexuality is the same as their character. It's acting

Couldn't agree more with this.

Renee Zellweger.doing British

Ah, well, if it puts a stop to that horror, I'm all for it!!!