AIBU to be completely on the fence? Straight men playing 'gay' roles

[Wheresmykimchi]

Article here - www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/showbiz-news/corrie-star-hits-back-after-19618647

Russell T Davies has decided to cast only gay men in roles for an AIDS drama.

Peter Ash , who is a straight man playing a gay man in Coronation Street , disagrees.

I'm usually a dog with a bone , irritating poster on topics I feel passionately about and LGBT is one but on this I just can't decide.

I can see Russell's point given the nature of the drama , and I'm never sure I agree with people playing 'gay' , in theory

But then I look at the gay characters in soaps in recent years , Peter's character being am excellent example along with Aaron Lindsay in Emmerdale , Kate Connor and Sophie Webster in Coronation Street , and see Peters point that the whole idea is that there is no such thing as acting 'gay', they are playing people.

I'm so on the fence I've got splinters. AIBU?

Exactly

I dunno @Wheresmykimchi if o was in casting it would be because I gave every job to Chris Hemsworth and Jason Mamoa.

I'm just saying of that IS fact then that should be dealt with rather than ring fencing gay jobs for gay people because it will just lead to fewer gay roles if people think they're going to have a smaller recruitment pot to pick for, end up with someone unsuitable

@VanGoghsDog

But on balance, there are plenty of gay actors who didn't shoot out of the womb gay

What?

Gay people who didn't always know they were gay/had to come to terms with it/had struggles as opposed to gay people who always knew and were comfortable and supported.

This was in relation to the argument about Danny Miller etc being more suitable for a part where a character is coming to terms with being gay as they have better understanding of the process.

@SleepingStandingUp

I dunno *@Wheresmykimchi* if o was in casting it would be because I gave every job to Chris Hemsworth and Jason Mamoa.

I'm just saying of that IS fact then that should be dealt with rather than ring fencing gay jobs for gay people because it will just lead to fewer gay roles if people think they're going to have a smaller recruitment pot to pick for, end up with someone unsuitable

Haha fair enough!

And yes I suppose.....

Why are gay people disproportionally not getting jobs?

I don't think they are in acting. Gay men, I mean which again seems to be the focus of this thread.

I think there's a valid separate point about gay stories and povs being the focus, but I think gay men get acting jobs whether they are playing gay, straight or unknown sexualities, because gay men act. In my cohort at drama school, around 30% of the male students were gay. That would actually be over-representation...

I would have thought in things like musical theatre, straight men are under represented.

If a character is supposed to be a black man aged about 50, I'd expect the actor to be both black and male, and to at least pass for over 50 - though not necessarily be over 50. When it comes to other characteristics, I'm less sure about it.

There was a big fuss about Sia's casting of a non-autistic girl playing an autistic girl in her film. I disagreed with the detractors - though it was mostly the abuse I saw towards Sia that put me off them. I'm autistic and understood and agreed with Sia's position on it. I have heard similar arguments regarding the acting/actors of other disabilities and my thought on it is - it's acting. Great if they can find an actor with the disability in question, but it shouldn't be the priority imo.

I think my position on LGB acting is similar. I understand the point to a certain extent, but I think representation on the screen by showing a diverse range of characters is more important than having to ensure that each actor shares those particular characteristics in real life.

It could encourage lying - where people pretend to have/be X Y and Z to get a part, or it could pressure people to come out publicly as LGB when they don't really want to. I also think it could actually result in a reduction of those types of roles/characters being written as it makes the pool of actors smaller, and it makes the casting such a big deal that people may want to avoid it altogether and stick to "traditional" - white male straight abled bodied characters.

But this is Russel T Davies' (who I'm a huge fan of) show, and it's his choice. If he thinks gay men can do a better job of playing gay men, that's his opinion and I think it's ok for him to act on it (unless it's illegal - I don't know how it works with equality laws). He probably is right that gay men will mostly do better job of playing gay chsracters, perhaps there are a few exceptions.

I think if it was up to me, I'd let the auditions serve as proof. So I wouldn't exclude straight men, and it may turn out that all the men who happened to be gay, did perform the roles better and then that's how I'd cast it. If I made the auditions for gay men only, I'd be worried about either a. Missing out on a better actor who is straight, b. Missing out on a gay actor who doesn't want to reveal that he's gay so doesn't audition, and c. Pressuring gay men who don't want the world to know they're gay but who really want the role, to "out" themselves.

.

It’s not really acting if you’re required to have the attributes of the actual character (although I concur that Macaulay Culkin might be a bit jarring as a member of NWA).

I have heard similar arguments regarding the acting/actors of other disabilities and my thought on it is - it's acting. Great if they can find an actor with the disability in question, but it shouldn't be the priority imo.

It's the same with There She Goes. But in that case, most of the parents of children with similar LDs to the girl portrayed said how well it had been done, and how their children would never have coped with the process of acting on a set. If they hadn't used a NT girl for the role, they couldn't have made the show.

If they're happy to play a role embrace the character then why not.
I usually don't give it much thought assuming it isn't real sexual chemistry.

If gay and straight roles were more equal it wouldn’t be as much as a problem

Oh ffs, unless you think 50% of people are gay, how would that ever work?

Gay characters are in a minority because gay people ARE a minority of the whole population.

Why are gay people disproportionally not getting jobs?

You can't ask that question when you haven't shown that your premise is true.
Which, I would say, it is not.

@bobbojobbo

Why are gay people disproportionally not getting jobs?

You can't ask that question when you haven't shown that your premise is true.
Which, I would say, it is not.

Hang on.

I asked it because someone stated it as fact so I asked why.

@bobbojobbo

If gay and straight roles were more equal it wouldn’t be as much as a problem

Oh ffs, unless you think 50% of people are gay, how would that ever work?

Gay characters are in a minority because gay people ARE a minority of the whole population.

But that's irrelevant surely. It depends on the demographic and of the programme and where it is set.

There are no grannies in Hollyoaks, well maybe one.

Is there only one granny in Chester? Speaking of gay characters, there are a lot of young gay men all within two years of each other but no other age.

You asked by without asking them on what basis they were asking it. So to both of you, prove your premise.

@bobbojobbo

You asked by without asking them on what basis they were asking it. So to both of you, prove your premise.

Eh?

I haven't got a premise. It might have been badly worded but I was simply questioning their statement.

I don't have to prove a premise to you . Apart from the fact I haven't got one, I'm not here to be questioned!

This one really winds me up.

If only a gay person can play a gay role then surely that means a gay guy can't play straight? No. It's just acting.

So Luke Evans would not have been playing Steve Wilkins in the recent Pembrokeshire Murders as the character was straight? And Gale Harrold could not have played Brian Kinney!?

It should not matter either way.

Not the same in any way as changing someone's race for a role. You can't act a different race.

You asked the question. Every question has a premise. Ergo, you had a premise.
You asked Why are gay people disproportionally not getting jobs?
which means you accepted the premise that they are not. Otherwise the question has no meaning.

Honestly, if you don't get this, what are you even doing here?

There are no grannies in Hollyoaks, well maybe one.Is there only one granny in Chester? Speaking of gay characters, there are a lot of young gay men all within two years of each other but no other age

This isn't even the right question! You've conflated "why are there less gay characters than I think there should be" with "why are gay people not getting enough jobs".
If you could work out the actual issue you have, you might get some help to decide what you think about it. Although why you need MN help to have an opinion is another question...

@bobbojobbo

There are no grannies in Hollyoaks, well maybe one.Is there only one granny in Chester? Speaking of gay characters, there are a lot of young gay men all within two years of each other but no other age

This isn't even the right question! You've conflated "why are there less gay characters than I think there should be" with "why are gay people not getting enough jobs".
If you could work out the actual issue you have, you might get some help to decide what you think about it. Although why you need MN help to have an opinion is another question...

My response was to you saying that 50 percent of people aren't gay. That's completely irrelevant , as per my example.

Do you jump onto alll threads on MN to claim the same? It's a relatively light hearted thread where I'm asking what people think. Because unlike you I'm interested in others opinions , freely given without policing them. I'm not posting about my life to need opinions , and I don't answer to you.

@bobbojobbo

You asked the question. Every question has a premise. Ergo, you had a premise. You asked Why are gay people disproportionally not getting jobs? which means you accepted the premise that they are not. Otherwise the question has no meaning.

Honestly, if you don't get this, what are you even doing here?

Yes you're very clever etc well done.

You have picked out a sentence in my response to another person which was actually nothing to do with you. I would rephrase the question to the PP as why do you think that , but given your superior, sneering , aren't I intelligent tone I can't be arsed.

This was a great wee thread until you rockes up so feel free to post what you like but I won't be engaging you further.

Gay actors play straight roles all the time. Neil Patrick Harris as Barney in How I met your mother is a great example. As is Jim Parson's Sheldon Cooper who is married to Amy. A woman.
If the actors had to, in real life, be who they were playing, then there would be no need to act. Did you know that Tom Hanks has NEVER been stranded on a desert island? Not even once! Nor has he been a pilot, a ship's captain, a toy or even dated a mermaid! Shocking.

@AvoidingNextdoorNeighbour

Gay actors play straight roles all the time. Neil Patrick Harris as Barney in How I met your mother is a great example. As is Jim Parson's Sheldon Cooper who is married to Amy. A woman. If the actors had to, in real life, be who they were playing, then there would be no need to act. Did you know that Tom Hanks has NEVER been stranded on a desert island? Not even once! Nor has he been a pilot, a ship's captain, a toy or even dated a mermaid! Shocking.

Neil Patrick Harris was fantastic and utterly convincing as a womanising straight man. Russell Tovey has also done this well in Gavin and Stacey and Him and Her.

I sort of disagree with NPH, as him being gay helped with Barney being a loveable character despite him being quite vile to women. I think the writing would have been toned down for another actor.