Biden our time until Inauguration Day! (Trump #121) 🙂🕊

[Roussette]

Previous thread...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4134370-Impeachment-of-Trump-and-Inauguration-of-Biden-120?watched=1&msgid=103674623#103674623

With thanks to @FridayNightAtTheBronzer for thread title

@Furries

I’m going to derail slightly here. And I know I could “look at google”, but sometimes the search results are too much to plough through! I’m more interested in views from “over the pond” and those in the UK.

Im not well versed in politics (and it’s something I know I need to be more clued up on). I’m in the UK and I struggle each time I have to vote because I don’t believe in either of the 2 main parties, but I also don’t think the other parties will gain power.

I’m going to use some very general terms now, they may cause offence, I don’t mean them to, which is why I want to learn.

Trump is a republican. The republicans are the equivalent of our consecrate party. From a totally “clueless” point of view, his demographic of supporters seems unusual. What follows is really simplified, sorry!

In the US, it seems like the “ordinary man” supports Trump, yet the “rich’ support democrats. But in the UK it would typically be the ordinary man would support Labour and the rich gits support conservative,

Am not explaining this well!

To me, who you have representing your party is crucial.

If the UK version of democrats had an Obama then I think things could have been different here - the raft of labour leaders have not energised me to vote .

From my understanding the conservatives in the UK are more akin to the Democrats in the US. Neither of the two mainstream parties are anywhere near as socialist as the UK's labour party

@Melassa, 'less dingly-dangly version'

Hahaha.

Yes he's that lookalike one that you can hire for special occasions!

@pointythings

cycling I am opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances. But once again you resort to whataboutery instead of answering a specific question.

Trump has triggered more federal executions in the final months of his presidency than any president in 100 years. It is convention to pause federal executions during a transition of power - Trump isn't doing that. So what is your opinion on that specific point? Come on, let's have a straight answer without any squirrels.

I'd also like to see your response to ZZTop's response about vaccinations, which clearly blows your Daily Mail article out of the water.

It's not known in the UK as 'The Daily Fail' for nothing. Nobody worth their salt would use this rag as proof of anything.

Yes, democrats and labour get grouped together because they are the more left party, on the left right axis. However, they aren't both at the same point along the axis, labour is much more left wing, with Bernie Sanders style politics being more equivalent (you know, "radical socialist" Bernie)

The difference between dems and our conservatives is that dems are humane.

I do think the Dems are sliding further left, and the republicans further right.

borntobequiet

Those early AIBUs, especially the first one!

Reading them now is quite eerie. People were predicting what has now happened.

There isn't really a UK equivalent to the Republicans either, because both UK parties (at least in public) support the UK state funded health care system, and gun law and abortion aren't election issues.

However I think it's also difficult to compare politics in the two countries because things vary so much from state to state , the structure of the US senate does not distribute representation equally, and the US system of checks and balances makes change difficult.

PMK

Slightly tongue in cheek, but if you were going to draw direct comparisons between U.K. and US style politics it would be more like this:

Labour = Bernie Sanders
Conservatives = Democrats
Brexit Party = Republicans
BNP = Tea Party

Obviously that’s a very broad comparison and not 100% accurate with plenty of overlap, but it’s an idea of where people generally sit on the spectrum.

In the US, it seems like the “ordinary man” supports Trump, yet the “rich’ support democrats.

Trump doesn't really represent the political views of the Republican Party. He ran as a populist and told people what they wanted to hear without ever showing any evidence of interest in government. Only some of the things he has promised coincide with Republican policy. That is why there was never a replacement health care plan, and why Republicans blocked the second $2000 stimulus cheque he wanted to send out.

Trump wanted to send out money to increase his popularity, but was too lazy and disinterested (and sidetracked by election conspiracy theories) to do any of the work necessary to persuade Republicans.

If the Democrats had been prepared to sell their souls, Trump would probably have been just as happy to run as a Democrat. Trump was selling a brand and the Republicans bought it.

Phew! Found you.

There isn't really a UK equivalent to the Republicans either, because both UK parties (at least in public) support the UK state funded health care system, and gun law and abortion aren't election issues

And there aren't the fervent evangelicals for us to cope with also. To me, the US doesn't seperate religion and politics enough. (sorry, sweeping statement I know)

Trump pretends to be a Christian so he can harness the evangelical vote, total hypocrisy on the part of evangelicals. I would've thought Trump would be the moral antithesis of what they would want in a President. Obviously not!
I presume he is just a useful tool to advance their beliefs.

From my understanding the conservatives in the UK are more akin to the Democrats in the US
I don't agree I don't think, I think the conservatives align themselves very nicely with Republicans, but I agree it is so hard to compare countries and their political parties.

"Labour = Bernie Sanders
Conservatives = Democrats
Brexit Party = Republicans
BNP = Tea Party"

Interesting! I need to re-align my political beliefs then! I find Conservatives pretty abhorrent especially at the moment, but from what I know of the Democrats, not so. Thinking on the Labour/Bernie Sanders comparison... my DD, a card carrying Labour supporter loves Bernie.... she wanted him to be the Democrat candidate... so sort of makes sense.

Other areas where politics don't easily map from UK to US:

Cannabis is about to be made legal in South Dakota which historically votes Republican.

No major political party in the UK questions climate change.

For historical and geographical reasons, people in the UK accept more government involvement in their lives. There isn't a serious 'libertarian' movement.

People really need to understand where the UKs parties come from before they make superficial and unhelpful comparisons with US parties. The Tories really are the party of the nobility and landed gentry. So immediately there is no US equivalence. Certainly not from 1776 when people in positions of power did not get them because of Daddy.

Meanwhile Labour are the party of the (industrial) worker. Again, no real comparison to US parties. Where Republicans are the Northern party of industry (i.e. the business owners) and the Democrats are the (ex) plantation owning Southerners.

Which is why it was the Northern, Republican party that eventually abolished slavery.

One thing that is true in the US, and now in the UK, is that there is no real party of the workers. And never has been.

The other reason UK-US comparisons are of limited value is the sheer geography of the US where "local" issues could be state-wide and affect an area that could hide the UK.

It's interesting the role religion still plays in the US. Maybe the splinter of the Tories with the Whigs over religion in the UK drained that potential carbuncle ?

Aren't the Democrats more like the Lib-Dems, though?

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom

Aren't the Democrats more like the Lib-Dems, though?

No.

Aren't the Democrats more like the Lib-Dems, though?

That implies that we know what the Lib-Dems stand for! I don't think I have been clear on that for years.

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom

Aren't the Democrats more like the Lib-Dems, though?

Don't be fooled by "Democrat" - it's a meaningless word in politics. Always has been.

US Democrats trace directly back to the people that owned plantations owned slaves in the South.

Whilst the UK has had a slave owning class, they were looked after by the Tories. So on paper the UK landed gentry and the US plantation slave owners are much more snug bedfellows than those rather oikish industrial chappies of the north.

Remember, a real Tory detests industry, except as a vehicle to invest some of that filthy lucre from overseas slaving and make even more money.

The fact they have conned so many people into thinking they are somehow the party of business speaks a lot to the ability of people to fool themselves in the light of their own aspirations. Just look at the current cabinet for proof. None of them have any clue about industry or business. And they don't trust people who do.

Certainly not from 1776 when people in positions of power did not get them because of Daddy.

America seemed to come full circle on that in 2016!

@merrymouse

Certainly not from 1776 when people in positions of power did not get them because of Daddy.

America seemed to come full circle on that in 2016!

Well there is "new" and "old" money in New England

In terms of dynasties, seems a fair Rep/Dem split in the US ?

We need a Kennedy. A live one.

So on paper the UK landed gentry and the US plantation slave owners are much more snug bedfellows than those rather oikish industrial chappies of the north.

Literally

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/12/hes-the-mp-with-the-downton-abbey-lifestyle-but-the-shadow-of-slavery-hangs-over-the-gilded-life-of-richard-drax

@merrymouse

Aren't the Democrats more like the Lib-Dems, though?

That implies that we know what the Lib-Dems stand for! I don't think I have been clear on that for years.

Apparently McNinny has worked her last day at the WH, (but will lie from home for the remaining days of the Trump presidency)

Bye bye McNinny.

She joined as Press Sec in April and at one of her first Pressers made the statement 'I will never lie to you'.
Unfortunately that was a lie as that was what she repeatedly did.
Glad to see the back of her.