To employ my SIL as a nanny/house help?

[Pumpertrumper]

So I’m not coping. I have a 10 month old, am pregnant and DH is a critical worker gone all the hours under the sun.

My lovely SIL is a student and registered child minder assistant, due to covid she’s struggling to find any job. I see a fantastic opportunity for us to employ her on a PT basis until she can secure a grad job.

She would happily help out for free (has said this repeatedly). We are good friends too but I would only feel right doing it officially. It’s also right she gets paid as is struggling without a PT job.

My question is given we want to employ her flexibly (so she can still uni as needed) and I’m already not coping (so the thought of working out tax/payslips/payroll/holiday allowance/sick leave is SOOO daunting) Is there a way we can just pay her a set amount, she can put it in her savings and it not cause either of us masses of paperwork or liabilities?

I can’t imagine everyone with a baby sitter/pt nanny/mothers help goes through all the official government hiring process (it looks like it’s aimed at proper companies).

Please be kind. I have money I want to pay her, she’s a struggling student wanting to earn. We are just trying to help each other out in a difficult time.

@Llmmnn

You are completely out of line. I’ve reported you so will let MN deal with this!

Wow @Llmmnn you're taking this all very personally. Do you know op in real life or something? Can't imagine caring quite so much about a complete strangers life.

@shouldistop

Wow *@Llmmnn* you're taking this all very personally. Do you know op in real life or something? Can't imagine caring quite so much about a complete strangers life.

You really need to see ops previous posts. Ive reported her for misleading poster , she NC constantly

@Llmmnn you quoted my post so you seen what I said. I don’t deny that other people have had it hard.

Have I not seen my grandmother that’s been diagnosed with terminal cancer in months and missed her last Xmas, probably won’t be there to hold her hand in her final days and has never held her granddaughter NO.

Do I have friends that live alone with no support bubble and are finding this so so hard YES.

Have I not been able to see my grandfather that lives literally a 5 minute walk from my house apart from through the window of his care home for nearly a year and has the later stages of dementia NO. so don’t start with me I know all too bloody well how much this thing has affected people on a whole. But someone made a statement that new mothers have been shat on and it’s a fact that they have. We haven’t had the support others had before us it’s a FACT!

Like another pp said you have taken what the OP has said very personally and the fact you have hunted to see what her previous post are all about shows you have some invested interest in this. Do you not have any other interests in real life you can focus on or would you rather troll someone on the internet for fun?

I think it's very relevant to understand the backstory here

@bruffin how do people know about her previous posts if she name changes constantly? Are there not millions of posters on mn?

Some posters are surprisingly identifiable

Because op is instantly recognisable and unforgettable for her sense of entitlement and drama queen behaviour

I would pay her cash and not think twice. It's a temporary part time arrangement with a family member. Perhaps if the SIL was on benefits, I'd be wary of any perception of benefit fraud but if she's otherwise without income, the small amount she will earn will not incur any tax liability in any case.

I can't believe people are saying this is fraud.

We haven’t had the support others had before us it’s a FACT!

Nor has any other group in need of support. Do you think all those groups should be patted on the head and encouraged to evade employer responsibilities to people who may themselves be on very low and insecure incomes?

@THisbackwithavengeance

I would pay her cash and not think twice. It's a temporary part time arrangement with a family member. Perhaps if the SIL was on benefits, I'd be wary of any perception of benefit fraud but if she's otherwise without income, the small amount she will earn will not incur any tax liability in any case.

I can't believe people are saying this is fraud.

Well, they're saying it because it's true.

Yes, it may seem a lot of hassle to register with HMRC but you still need to do it. Like a PP said upthread, it's an easy case for a "newbie" to train on so you do need to be careful. The government often go after the little people as it's easier.

If you have someone working for you, you need to make sure it's above board. As they say, ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

@C8H10N4O2 at what point in any of my posts have I said that? I have not one suggested what others have in any of my posts. Suggest you read my posts again. I know all too well how this is affecting everyone. Have a nice day

at what point in any of my posts have I said that?

There were two unless you accidentally NCd and I read them both. So just to be clear - you are not defending the OP evading her responsibilities as an employer and you think she should live up to them?

In which case honestly not sure what point you were trying to make.

I agree some posters who name change frequently are recognisable.

I have absolutely no idea what anyone would deem ‘instantly recognisable’ about my post I really truly don’t. But it seems to have caused a real hoo haa

‘I have a small child and an pregnant with number 2’
‘I have a DP who is working a lot because of covid’
‘I’m bubbled with DM, see her maybe twice a week’
I read this situation multiple times a day. It’s half of mumsnet. It’s not ‘instantly identifiable’!

But thank you for totally derailing a thread asking about the best way to pay a friend/family member for domestic support

Also MN have now deleted @Llmmnn post

would recommend people stop incorrectly playing detective now.

@C8H10N4O2 I was actually replying to another poster who said new mothers had been shat on that was my point. Not once have I said that I agree with what she was going to do. Nope not NC not everyone does on here.

Back to the original question:

We use one of the nanny paye companies mentioned and it's really very easy. Fill in a form, occasional email to reply to.

You could use this to do a minimum number of hours and top any extra in cash. Then you don't need to worry about changing payroll.

Or, whilst it won't be the popular Mumsnet option, I'd pay cash in this scenario. Sounds like she won't be liable for tax anyway and this keeps it simple.

@Hobnobswantshernameback

Some posters are surprisingly identifiable

Agreed.

But thank you for totally derailing a thread asking about the best way to pay a friend/family member for domestic support

The best way to pay a family member for support is to pay them properly, take responsibility as an employer and not exploit them because they are kin.

Unsurprisingly you don't agree.

She needs an employment contract and I thought it was illegal to employ someone without one. It needs to set out hours, holiday and dick entitlements. What if she got seriously injured whilst working for you? No one ever thinks it will happen to them. I used to work with a person who fell down the stairs, landed on her neck was hospitalised and died of her injuries.

I live abroad and over here people pay cleaners and other casual help using a government funded cheque/voucher system. You buy the vouchers and a portion goes to social security.
To the people who said pay her cash and no paperwork - I presume that is not legal because it means tax won't be paid.

But thank you for totally derailing a thread asking about the best way to pay a friend/family member for domestic support

Properly and legally.

But you evidentially can't be arsed to do that and want to be pay her less than minimum wage, cash-in-hand.

So, if I've read this correctly, you want to formalise the arrangement to exploit a loophole that will allow her to legally be in your home during a national lockdown? But you don't want to have to deal the additional responsibilities this would bring?

You can't have your cake and eat it! If you're paying her, to make it legal to be in your home, she will be an employee.

Ignore the posters suggesting she could be self-employed. I'd sincerely doubt the arrangement would pass the HMRC tests for genuinely self-employed.

On the off-chance she did, then the 'petrol money' you're suggesting as a top-up would be classed as income and go into the same pot as the other money you pay her. The £1000 trading allowance some posters have referred to is £1000 gross income, not £1000 net after expenses.

Assuming she will be an employee, then you need to ensure that what you pay her covers NMW for the actual hours worked in each individual pay period. It's not something that can be averaged out to allow you to dodge registering for PAYE if her wage would exceed the thresholds.

Eh. For such a temporary arrangement I’d just pay cash in hand

@Paanda

Eh. For such a temporary arrangement I’d just pay cash in hand

Illegally you mean.