To employ my SIL as a nanny/house help?

[Pumpertrumper]

So I’m not coping. I have a 10 month old, am pregnant and DH is a critical worker gone all the hours under the sun.

My lovely SIL is a student and registered child minder assistant, due to covid she’s struggling to find any job. I see a fantastic opportunity for us to employ her on a PT basis until she can secure a grad job.

She would happily help out for free (has said this repeatedly). We are good friends too but I would only feel right doing it officially. It’s also right she gets paid as is struggling without a PT job.

My question is given we want to employ her flexibly (so she can still uni as needed) and I’m already not coping (so the thought of working out tax/payslips/payroll/holiday allowance/sick leave is SOOO daunting) Is there a way we can just pay her a set amount, she can put it in her savings and it not cause either of us masses of paperwork or liabilities?

I can’t imagine everyone with a baby sitter/pt nanny/mothers help goes through all the official government hiring process (it looks like it’s aimed at proper companies).

Please be kind. I have money I want to pay her, she’s a struggling student wanting to earn. We are just trying to help each other out in a difficult time.

Some holier than thou folks on here today.

Are you not too busy saving the whales or something? Or maybe catching all those billionaires avoiding massive, billion pound tax bills?

Thought not

@Pumpertrumper

Think I’ll pay her £325 a month as a self employed ‘cleaner/baby sitter’ for 3 months to keep her under the £1000 so she doesn’t have to declare or do a tax return. Will offer it as £75 a week and give her cash to cover her petrol to/from us!

I think that’s fair, gives her flexibility and we can still have a legit contract for lockdown purposes. It’s equivalent to a 10 hour a week retail/normal job.

This is £4.68 an hour at 16 hours, which is a piss take and taking advantage. You should pay her at least minimum wage if you don't want to be a cheeky fucker.

@Doffodils

She deserves more than minimum wage if she’s looking after your child

Why? She's a student with no experience or qualifications. What do you think the going rate for nursery staff is?

Because she’s looking after the OP’s most treasured possession (okay, a child isn’t technically a possession)!

I pay my dog walker more than that, and he’s “just” a dog.

The OP also says that she is a qualified childcare assistant. Being a student doesn’t mean they are worthless.

I’m not angry?

There’s a backstory.

But even on this thread alone, the op wants advice on how to commit fraud.

@MaskingForIt

Would probably be around 14-16 hours a week fwiw and minimum wage for her age is £8.20.

She deserves more than minimum wage if she’s looking after your child.

Eh? I'm a childminder and basically charge £4 an hour per child.

Doing exactly this at the moment and using cash.

@grassisjeweled

Some holier than thou folks on here today.

Are you not too busy saving the whales or something? Or maybe catching all those billionaires avoiding massive, billion pound tax bills?

Thought not

I work in VAT fraud.

Does that qualify me?

Cash in hand is the best way to go.

I really wouldn't. Employing family members/friends can massively backfire. MASSIVELY.

@Llmmnn

I’m not angry?

There’s a backstory.

But even on this thread alone, the op wants advice on how to commit fraud.

What's the backstory?

*I work in VAT fraud.

Does that qualify me?*

No. We are talking about a student earning a very small amount to help out family and you are banging on about fraud. Get a life.

*I work in VAT fraud.

Does that qualify me?*

Then you'll know there are many bigger fish to fry than someone paying a family member cash in hand for a bit of baby sitting / help in the house

My DD is a nanny who is also a uni student. She is, entirely legally, doing short term, part time jobs at the moment. She keeps a record and does a tax return. She'll be under the threshold again so will have nothing to pay.

Legit for both her and her employers

@Llmmnn

I’m not angry?

There’s a backstory.

But even on this thread alone, the op wants advice on how to commit fraud.

A backstory? For you? Not relevant to the OP though!

Well, I wouldn’t break the law. I wouldn’t commit tax evasion and fraud. I wouldn’t drive a car without adequate insurance or have someone working as an employee in my house without insurance in place.

But the op is happy to and wants advice on that.

I hope she gets caught. (She more than likely won’t I know.)

Regardless of tax, you need to cover yourself re having a proper contract of employment, check whether you need employers liability insurance etc. I'd definitely suggest you go with one of the "nannytax" firms to do the formalities. Family or not, employment needs the t's crossed and i's dotted to save yourself a world of pain if things go wrong.

A bubble because you have a child under 1 can be for any reason needed, practical, emotional or physical help. The Police aren't going to come knocking.

Employ her cash in hand, as though she's self employed and if she does any extra work she can work out what she needs to declare. My friend does hair weaving/nails and gets paid cash in hand, she just keeps records and pays class 2 NI contributions, about £3 a week. You sort out how much and when and let her sort out her side.

@shouldistop

*I work in VAT fraud.

Does that qualify me?*

Then you'll know there are many bigger fish to fry than someone paying a family member cash in hand for a bit of baby sitting / help in the house

Trouble is that HMRC don't just go after the big fish. Particularly their trainees/graduate new to the job often "cut their teeth" on small scale jobs, especially easy ones such as nannyies!

I remember one of my clients, a couple of years ago, suffering at the hands of a newly recruited graduate trainee inspector - she was a pain in the arse. She wanted all their bank statements and made a huge list of payments/transfers that she wanted explanations for - some as little as a fiver. The client was a SAHM doing some private tuition for 11+ and GCSE so hardly "big fish".

@Ponoka7

A bubble because you have a child under 1 can be for any reason needed, practical, emotional or physical help. The Police aren't going to come knocking.

Employ her cash in hand, as though she's self employed and if she does any extra work she can work out what she needs to declare. My friend does hair weaving/nails and gets paid cash in hand, she just keeps records and pays class 2 NI contributions, about £3 a week. You sort out how much and when and let her sort out her side.

Suggest you read up on HMRC's "employment status indicator" or CEST or whatever they call it these days. There's no way a nanny would ever pass the test for being self employed.

@Llmmnn, there's nothing for the OP to get caught over. The childminder will be paid as a self employed cleaner or mobile hairdresser would.

@user1497207191, she isn't a nanny, she's similar to an au pair, but more like a cleaner come babysitter. It's a very temporary arrangement.

@ChocOrange1

She can register as self employed. Then she just keeps track of how much she has been paid and submits a tax return at the end of the year. Chances are it will be way under the tax threshold anyway.

I do this is a self employed tutor. I have a spreadsheet with income and expenses and it takes about half an hour to do a tax return.

You dont need to worry about employee status, national insurance, holiday pay and sick pay etc, just agree with her in advance what will happen if she goes on holiday/sick.

Self employed or employed is not a matter of personal choice. OP legally needs to pay her as an employee or worker if that is what she is, which it certainly sounds like.

As a tutor, presumably you have numerous clients, you can pick and choose which ones you take on, you can possibly send cover if you are ill etc. There are various employment tests, which I am sure you would pass, but OP would not.

It's actually incredibly simple to set up, you register with hmrc but if the income is below a certain threshold she isn't liable for tax or ni so it's just reporting. Took me about 20 minutes to set up and 5 mins a month to process

100% just pay cash. Unless she insists on doing it properly.
know it's not strictly legal and I'm usually a stickler for this... but in this instance that's what I would do when it's a temporary arrangement with family.
Millions of people pay cleaners and gardeners this way.

[quote Ponoka7]@user1497207191, she isn't a nanny, she's similar to an au pair, but more like a cleaner come babysitter. It's a very temporary arrangement.[/quote]
When you put the facts into the HMRC employment status indicator, come back to tell us what it says!