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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To employ my SIL as a nanny/house help?

152 replies

Pumpertrumper · 15/01/2021 12:09

So I’m not coping. I have a 10 month old, am pregnant and DH is a critical worker gone all the hours under the sun.

My lovely SIL is a student and registered child minder assistant, due to covid she’s struggling to find any job. I see a fantastic opportunity for us to employ her on a PT basis until she can secure a grad job.

She would happily help out for free (has said this repeatedly). We are good friends too but I would only feel right doing it officially. It’s also right she gets paid as is struggling without a PT job.

My question is given we want to employ her flexibly (so she can still uni as needed) and I’m already not coping (so the thought of working out tax/payslips/payroll/holiday allowance/sick leave is SOOO daunting) Is there a way we can just pay her a set amount, she can put it in her savings and it not cause either of us masses of paperwork or liabilities?

I can’t imagine everyone with a baby sitter/pt nanny/mothers help goes through all the official government hiring process (it looks like it’s aimed at proper companies).

Please be kind. I have money I want to pay her, she’s a struggling student wanting to earn. We are just trying to help each other out in a difficult time.

OP posts:
JustAnotherUserinParadise · 15/01/2021 13:20

I'd definitely just pay her cash! It's not dodging tax etc as she'd be well under the threshold anyway!
Do sit down though and draw up a "contract" ie. lay out expectations of what she will do, hours, and what happens if she's ill/doesn't want to do it anymore etc...

xyzandabc · 15/01/2021 13:20

If it's just for a few months I would either just do it cash in hand or if she wants to do it all above board get her to do it on a self employed basis.

I did this a few years ago to help a friend out, many people will tell you, you can't be a self employed nanny but get her to look in to it, you can if the circumstances are right.

In my case I chose the hours as it worked around my kids and 'proper' job, said when I could/couldn't work, it was only temporary and I could have worked for others. She paid me direct to my bank account, I registered as self employed, then informed hrmc when I stopped being self employed. Then I did a tax return at the end of the year. Was really quite simple and made me feel like I'd done the right thing.

SleepingStandingUp · 15/01/2021 13:21

But o wouldn't work out how much she'd earned that week, I'd try and give the same each week of a round amount so it's more cash for favour not wages.

PinotLover · 15/01/2021 13:22

You can earn £1000 a year and not declare it as a self employed person or just call HMRC and tell them as a taxpayer. What are her other earnings for the tax year so far?

SeaToSki · 15/01/2021 13:22

Tell her you will pay her cash as a self employed student with a vacation job. She has to look up the guidelines for what tax and national insurance she owes and sort it. Very good for her to do the research and fill in the forms, it will mean she is educated on the matter and less likely to be taken advantage of in the future. If at the end of her working for you she has earned enough to put her over the threshold, then she will have to fill in the form and pay tax/NI. If she doesnt then you both save a ton of hassle.

Send her the details in an email so you have a paper trail and each week when you pay her send her an email confirming the amount and have her reply thanks (or something). Then you have a paper trail for amounts.

Finally (or firstly) have an email between the two of you where you talk about what you are expecting her to do - child care, house work, laundry, cooking, shopping, covid precautions, hours, timeliness etc

Original poster
Pumpertrumper · 15/01/2021 13:27

Would I’m paying her cash in hand to nanny for a few weeks ‘not stand up’ though if I get a knock on the door asking why she’s in my house during lockdown?

She’s happy enough to work self employed as a child minding assistant but given covid work just for us with my son. She’s happy to be called whatever, ‘house keeper’, ‘baby sitter’, ‘personal assistant’ so don’t think ‘nanny’s can’t be self employed’ is too much of an issue!

I worry most about getting a knock on the door from the police and it standing up as legit if that makes sense x

OP posts:
olderthanilookapparently · 15/01/2021 13:30

You would just say she is the babysitter, the policeman is not going to check her employment status / tax liability

SleepingStandingUp · 15/01/2021 13:30

@Pumpertrumper

Would I’m paying her cash in hand to nanny for a few weeks ‘not stand up’ though if I get a knock on the door asking why she’s in my house during lockdown?

She’s happy enough to work self employed as a child minding assistant but given covid work just for us with my son. She’s happy to be called whatever, ‘house keeper’, ‘baby sitter’, ‘personal assistant’ so don’t think ‘nanny’s can’t be self employed’ is too much of an issue!

I worry most about getting a knock on the door from the police and it standing up as legit if that makes sense x

Surely she's your childcare bubble?
OhCaptain · 15/01/2021 13:30

@BlingLoving

You will get a million people on here telling you of course you must do it formally etc ec etc. but honestly, I'm struggling to see why you can't just pay her cash. It's a few hours a week, she's family etc.

A bigger issue of course is that employing family in any capacity can get complicated in terms of performance management etc. But if you're confident that's not going to be a problem, then just go for it.

I agree with this.
SleepingStandingUp · 15/01/2021 13:31

Also you have an under 1 so you get a baby bubble.

OhCaptain · 15/01/2021 13:31

@Pumpertrumper

Would I’m paying her cash in hand to nanny for a few weeks ‘not stand up’ though if I get a knock on the door asking why she’s in my house during lockdown?

She’s happy enough to work self employed as a child minding assistant but given covid work just for us with my son. She’s happy to be called whatever, ‘house keeper’, ‘baby sitter’, ‘personal assistant’ so don’t think ‘nanny’s can’t be self employed’ is too much of an issue!

I worry most about getting a knock on the door from the police and it standing up as legit if that makes sense x

She's your childcare bubble and your SIL. Nothing wrong with that.
TierFourTears · 15/01/2021 13:33

You have a baby under 1. Can she be your childcare bubble?

Original poster
Pumpertrumper · 15/01/2021 13:34

Think I’ll pay her £325 a month as a self employed ‘cleaner/baby sitter’ for 3 months to keep her under the £1000 so she doesn’t have to declare or do a tax return. Will offer it as £75 a week and give her cash to cover her petrol to/from us!

I think that’s fair, gives her flexibility and we can still have a legit contract for lockdown purposes. It’s equivalent to a 10 hour a week retail/normal job.

OP posts:
CorvusPurpureus · 15/01/2021 13:36

I would pay CIH & not worry about the tax etc etc - but what about insurance? If, heaven forfend, there was an accident to your dc, or slightly less awfully, damage to your or someone else's property, whilst your dc was in your SIL's care, she'd be liable for you suing her as I understand it, & a professional nanny would have insurance against that.

Obviously as she's a student she wouldn't have anything worth suing her for (& also it's not something I imagine would be conducive to good family relationships!) but I'd worry that you'd both be very exposed in that situation.

Might be talking out of my bum here, but a friend who did some 'off the books' nannying for a relative years ago stopped because they were advised - by an employment lawyer in the extended family - that it was a really dodgy position for everyone to be in?

Viviennemary · 15/01/2021 13:36

I wouldn't normally think this is a good idea but in your case it sounds as if it could work well for both of you. I also think there is no point in a formal arrangement. Just pay in cash.

Original poster
Pumpertrumper · 15/01/2021 13:37

@TierFourTears

No as my DM is our bubble. She’s already helping out 2 days a week for free (happy to see DS)
DH just had his Rota come through for the next 3 months and it’s awful, I cried knowing we just wouldn’t manage I’m barely gonna see him, he’ll be nocturnal all of March!!!

That’s why I’m wanting to ‘get ahead’ of this shit show by getting more help in place now.

OP posts:
wink1970 · 15/01/2021 13:39

I employ my StepDaughter as a cleaner - she's self employed so I just pay her by DD and she keeps her own books, pays her taxes etc.

She can some to my house as she cannot do her job working from home, so I have no problems should the police knock. I have told the neighbours that's the position in case any are tempted to report me.

SleepingStandingUp · 15/01/2021 13:42

[quote Pumpertrumper]@TierFourTears

No as my DM is our bubble. She’s already helping out 2 days a week for free (happy to see DS)
DH just had his Rota come through for the next 3 months and it’s awful, I cried knowing we just wouldn’t manage I’m barely gonna see him, he’ll be nocturnal all of March!!!

That’s why I’m wanting to ‘get ahead’ of this shit show by getting more help in place now.[/quote]
You can have your Mom as one bubble and sil as your childcare bubble as long as they don't mix. Presumably you wouldn't need them to anyway

notalwaysalondoner · 15/01/2021 13:45

I would do it. I know for nannies they changed the rules recently around employer contributions etc. but I would employ her as a childminder or something with a different title. To be honest for the setup you describe with my own sister I'd probably just do cash in hand and let her declare her own income.

Mrgrinch · 15/01/2021 13:48

I would do it cash in hand. I can't imagine why you'd get a knock on the door randomly asking why someone was in your house.

londonscalling · 15/01/2021 13:49

I like to do everything by the book so I'm really not condoning doing anything underhand. However, I suppose I'm thinking out loud and would be interested in honest answers ...

Depending on how many hours she is doing, and that she is a family member, is it an official thing?

If say you get a family member, ie your mum, to help out with the kids and you treat her at the end of the month, would they need to declare that and pay tax?

Do babysitters pay tax?

You probably need proper advice to ensure it's all above board.

IndecentFeminist · 15/01/2021 13:50

That's a long way under minimum wage though isn't it? Minimum wage for 16bhrs a week would be £130 odd

Kokeshi123 · 15/01/2021 14:08

Pay cash. I basically do this with someone local to me (tho not a family member). It's fine.

Original poster
Pumpertrumper · 15/01/2021 14:10

I don’t think I’d qualify for a childcare bubble given I’m not at work myself. My understanding of childcare bubbles is you need to ‘need’ them for example if you’re working or studying, or having to go to a medical Apt. Not just ‘I’m so tired and have back ache and need help!’

OP posts:
Original poster
Pumpertrumper · 15/01/2021 14:14

Even if she could be a childcare bubble I’d feel a bit cheeky and like I was taking advantage given it’s more than normal ‘SIL’ popping around.

£300+ would be a nice amount for her, we can afford it and although might not end up working out to exactly minimum wage if she does 14 hours a week on average it’s surely better than ‘come do it for free’ Grin plus I’m sure before next uni submission she’ll no doubt have a week she doesn’t come, so it’ll even itself out x

OP posts: