Kids and schools book choice of Mister Tom

[LiJo2015]

Ill keep this short as currently baby napped with 5 month old so typing one handed!

11 yo son currently readjng mister tom for school. Came down stairs yesterday and visibly shocked and a little shaken at the part about his abusive mums treatment of his new baby sibling.

No warning about this book came from the school. I have contacted the school to explain that although i wouldnt want storylines like this not to be covered but they can be distressing and would want the assurance that its being handled empathetically.

So

AINBU - if so, why

AIBU - if so, why

I'm a teacher and I find the notion that no child should ever read a book without a qualified teacher present to warn them about any sad or stressful parts coming up, to be pretty funny though 😂

@SmeleanorSmellstrop

I disagree if it’s a book chosen by school and given to all 11 year olds to read at home, not under the guidance of an adult in many cases. Those children may then not be able to access the online provision to discuss these issues so will be left confused and possibly distressed.

I find it astonishing a teacher would find this notion funny.

@SmeleanorSmellstrop

But maybe you work in a very privileged school without issues of domestic violence, abuse and neglect. So you are out of touch with reality.

To speak to a 1/3 of the parents in my school I need a translator. They are very unlikely to be able to read that book with their children and we Would have to use 10 different language translator to pre warn and explain why their children may be upset.

It is a bit funny, or poss just a tad out, are children seriously not meant to read anything potentially distressing, with out having to discuss it? I just let my kids get on with it much like I did when I was a kid, I read all sorts of stuff.

*a tad ott

@Macncheeseballs

That choice should be made between the parent and child, parents would know if their own child is mature enough to understand such issues.

Potentially distressing books should not be issued to the whole class to read at home alone, they should be read in a controlled environment to protect the most vulnerable.

Then parents have the choice for their own children to read such material in their own time.

They've been told not to use The Boy in The Striped Pyjamas. Its utter shite.

One thing I will say is that it confused me about pregnancy at 8 years old. I knew about sex and everything then suddenly in this book she claimed (wills mothers) she just got pregnant without any contact. Obviously being older i knew she was lying but at that age it confused me and made me think you could just get pregnant like that for a bit.

@Hotcuppatea

This book should not be read at home without any support and explanation provided throughout by a qualified teacher

Say what? So this dangerous book shouldn't be read independently by children without support from a qualified teacher? Leave off.

This!!!

So only teachers and RE teachers at that can give emotional support I actually think it’s the other way round!

While I agree that it’s a standard book to be reading in year 6 has been for at least 30 years, it’s when I read it and I was 40 this year. And tbh I can’t remember our parents being asked or given any prior warning of it. But then we all saw it as a rather grown up book and were quite excited to be reading it so perhaps us coming home for weeks saying we were going to be reading it acted as the preparation.

But absolutely the teacher would not have been able to support with the emotional stuff of the child abuse without the support of parents. And had they tried I know a number of the parents would have been quite annoyed about it.

And what about those that only read it at home not at school? I read carries war at home on my own and when hitler stole pink rabbit. Do you know who I asked my questions too .... it sure as hell wasn’t my qualified teachers!

There’s demanding and horrifying elements of many books, Matilda, BFG, even things like the twits and the boy in the dress. Tracey beaker deals with children without parents, many of Jacqueline Wilson’s books deal with issues such as death, parental separation and bullying, should these books not be read without the support of a qualified teacher!!

Sorry on mr Tom I understand OPs point that that story line is horrowing and perhaps a letter home explaining the book does contain some harrowing issues and some resources where to find support.

On the other hand I agree with everyone else it’s not unusual for the book to be read at this age, and maybe that’s the thing maybe the fact it has been read at this age for so long the school presumed that parents would know the book and be ready for the story line.

I think this sort of reading is an essential part of developing empathy.

Most children’s books feature something sad - not having parents is a universal theme.

There will also be children in his class reading adult novels for a while.

@RizzleDrizzle

And what about those that only read it at home not at school? I read carries war at home on my own and when hitler stole pink rabbit. Do you know who I asked my questions too .... it sure as hell wasn’t my qualified teachers!

Well you were lucky you were brought up in a safe environment where such questions could be asked.

This thread just shows the privilege of many where people can’t even comprehend that some kids in their class would be suffering in a home of DV, abuse, neglect where their parents can’t or won’t support their emotional needs or even read a letter sent home to parents warning them of the content.

But as long as your children are ok and you were ok with reading these books alone, fuck the vulnerable kids and those wanting to look out for their well being

I’ve taught sensitive subjects at school, which have helped children to realise that they hadn’t given consent, that they are being emotionally abused etc and thus have sought help... if this book was triggering to a child and they are now stuck at home for 3 months, then what?

Well you were lucky you were brought up in a safe environment where such questions could be asked

Was I?? Oh great cos here was me, you know the person who was actually living through it, was under the impression I was actually an undiagnosed autistic kid, who had been excluded from schools because shitty teachers couldn’t cope with my “challenging behaviour” and physically and emotional bullied, with divorced parents and it was actually my respite foster carers that brought me carries war and when hitler stole pink rabbit, and it was my foster carers that took me to dillions (Waterstones) every time I went to hers to pick out a new book to read because yeah my home life didn’t allow for stuff like that.

This thread just shows the privilege of many where people can’t even comprehend that some kids in their class would be suffering in a home of DV, abuse, neglect where their parents can’t or won’t support their emotional needs or even read a letter sent home to parents warning them of the content.

If anything shows privilege it’s your assumption that you can’t imagine a kid who enjoyed reading fame from anything other than a safe loving middle class family.

I possibly agree that not all parents care or support, but there’s an alwful lot of children who don’t have support who don’t turn to teachers or would want too.

But as long as your children are ok and you were ok with reading these books alone, fuck the vulnerable kids and those wanting to look out for their well being

As long as you can make your middle class assumptions fuck the experience of an actual real life countable kid hay?!

Yes I didn’t say I was exactly the type of vulnerable kid you were talking about but maybe don’t make assumptions or patronising posts when you know fuck all about the person your replying too.

Also do something about your virtues singling and take an award for your phoney “won’t some one think about the vunrable children” while replying to some one who was exactly the type of vulnerable child

I think that many children discover the world through reading and actually reading about something tragic in a story that is sensitive, empathetic and at its heart a book about love and finding a home is a good thing. I read many books as an 11 year old some of which were for older teens and was virtually given free reign in the town library to get whatever I fancied. It allowed my to process and understand lots of things. If I needed to I asked my mum about things but actually I don't remember needing to. Some things were sad; some were shocking; some were eye opening (stuff about sex and relationships) but actually none of it harmed me. The book we are discussing deals with the subject beautifully. The end of the story is happy and the protagonist is nurtured and cared for. We need to stop wrapping our kids in cotton wool and let them find out about the world; the amazing stuff and the hard, upsetting parts. Parents are there to provide that sounding board. If you have a good relationship with your kids, they will ask you questions when they need to. If your first reaction is anger and upset that they have been exposed to something sad, they won't tell you in future.

Can't help thinking this thread has got a bit derailed. I was one of the people saying how very deeply affected and upset my son was by GMT, and he is the epitome of a MC, widely read kid from a supportive home. You don't need to be vulnerable or to be 'triggered' to find something upsetting.

Also, very few people on this thread have argued that the book shouldn't be read - they've merely suggested that a heads up to parents might not be a bad plan. It's not the same as a child's home reading, because at home it's a parent's responsibility to monitor what their children are reading (or to take the decision not to monitor it), depending on the individual child. At school it's different, because it's out of your hands. It's similar to the way that primary schools generally give parents the nod when they're going to be covering the more sensitive bits of sex ed, so that parents can be prepared for possible questions etc at home.

@alpinecheese

Yes! Said so much more succinctly than i could!

"I was one of the people saying how very deeply affected and upset my son was by GMT, and he is the epitome of a MC, widely read kid from a supportive home. You don't need to be vulnerable or to be 'triggered' to find something upsetting."

I'm one of those who wasn't upset and read worse as a child.
I grew up with parents that expected to us to accept whatever life threw at you and cope with it. I knew from experience that children and babies died and I knew that some parents were not all they should be - far from it!
I don't mean that you've over-protected your son, but he may not have had the life experiences that prepared him for the book.

Maybe, far from being triggering, the incidents in the book simply confirm what many children accept as life and are therefore not shocked.

It's an excellent book and in 20 years of teaching the ONLY upset I have ever beard of with it was the post from OP. It's sensitive, optimistic, life affirming and redemptive. It's a million times better than "Carrie's War" which is enormously dull for most children and addresses topics well and truthfully (unlike Striped Pajamas, which the Holocaust Trust specifically advise against). I teach it alongside Rose Blanche and When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit. It usually provokes keen readers to more - the Silver Sword, I am David.

Children routinely respond positively to it and i've never even had to comfort one - they can all see that the Mum is mentally ill and behaving wrongly, just as they can see that Mr Tom is thawing out and coming to life again. I've never had tears at that bit. Although I do get tears sometimes at the part where he realises that he can't read or write. I get kids more upset at War Horse.

@phlebasconsidered that’s really interesting. I have never read the book but I can’t get past the descriptions upthread of a young child trapped in a cupboard with the decomposing body of their baby sibling. I would advise an adult against reading that. Why do you think children are not upset by that, is it the way it is written? It just sounds horrific. Makes me think of the baby in Trainspotting.

I think something being missed by some is that books are a fantastic building blocks for life.

A book like Goodnight Mister Tom is very important to a child's development as it very succinctly opens a child's eyes to the fact that other children a hideously abused and how it may not always be visible to see.

By reading with kids at home, you can build up their opinions and expectations with a very balanced an adult view. I remember reading the exact passage where his mum was nice and then not nice and not understanding why she was like that.

My Dad reread the passage with me and explained she was most likely mentally unwell and how such illnesses often went overlooked. In turn, how that can impact children such as William and Trudy and even though it's very scary, sometimes that does happen. That's why it's so important to be kind to other people etc.

I think it's important to know what your children are reading and to always read a blurb online if you think the book might be a bit challenging. I read the boy in Striped pyjamas when it first came out when I was thirteen or so and I was haunted by it and couldn't articulate why I was so upset because I found it too upsetting to talk about. My Mum read it and we were able to talk about it.

Books are the world's greatest learning tool, they are not to be shied away from, no matter how difficult the content they should be treasured and revered.

I don't mean that you've over-protected your son, but he may not have had the life experiences that prepared him for the book. I sincerely hope there is not one child in this country, or indeed the world, who was life experiences that prepare him/her for the idea of a child being locked in a cupboard for days with a dead baby.

[quote CheetasOnFajitas]@phlebasconsidered that’s really interesting. I have never read the book but I can’t get past the descriptions upthread of a young child trapped in a cupboard with the decomposing body of their baby sibling. I would advise an adult against reading that. Why do you think children are not upset by that, is it the way it is written? It just sounds horrific. Makes me think of the baby in Trainspotting.[/quote]
But he learns that it wasn't his fault, that he wasn't weak or stupid or to blame for it. It's horrific, but sensitively done in regards to how the adults finding them handle his responses and feelings. The entire books is teaching how it's OK to question, to speak up, to be yourself, that you aren't to blame for awful treatment and cruel words and that people who love you don't do that. And that trauma and loss can be healed from. It ends with hope.

I didn’t even consider the character might think it was his fault. It’s just the image of a child in a cupboard with a dead baby, how can a child get over that memory even if he knows he was not to blame?

It's a horrific book and it's the only book from my entire childhood that left me traumatised.... I don't think it's suitable for children at all.

I wouldn't want my children reading it because I remember how it left me feeling as a child - horrified, upset and traumatised to the point that I'd never read it again or allow any of my kids to read it.

Interesting point about children not being 'prepared' for sad things in books. In my son's case, I think it was the idea of a non-loving parent in GMT that upset him so much. Perhaps it was the first time he'd really come across this as a concept. When he was younger, I can remember other occasions when the rupture of a parent-child relationship upset him (eg Nemo's mum dying in Finding Nemo). Whereas fantasy/dystopian violence or threat doesn't bother him at all.

I agree completely that sad/scary books can be a healthy way of working through emotions. For anyone interested, there's an excellent book called The Enchanted Hunters which explores exactly this idea, arguing that children should be exposed to scary/sad books rather than trying to reassure them with saccharine stories (the author is particularly scathing about the kind of twee picture books designed to lull young children to sleep). I'll attempt a link.

www.theguardian.com/books/2009/nov/07/enchanted-stories-byatt-book-review