Kids and schools book choice of Mister Tom

[LiJo2015]

Ill keep this short as currently baby napped with 5 month old so typing one handed!

11 yo son currently readjng mister tom for school. Came down stairs yesterday and visibly shocked and a little shaken at the part about his abusive mums treatment of his new baby sibling.

No warning about this book came from the school. I have contacted the school to explain that although i wouldnt want storylines like this not to be covered but they can be distressing and would want the assurance that its being handled empathetically.

So

AINBU - if so, why

AIBU - if so, why

I remember our teacher read it to us in a class of 8-11 year olds. She skipped that part! I don't blame her, knowing it now it is very hard hitting for children and I would be uncomfortable reading it out to a class!
I think some sort of warning or guidance would have been good. Then you could skip it or read the section with him.

Life is full of distressing things for all ages. Children need to be equipped with the tools required to deal with upsetting and distressing things, most of which don’t come with warning in real life. They need to learn to be resilient. He’s going to read worse than “Goodnight Mister Tom” which was one of my all time favourites as a child of 8 or 9.

Not every parent will know the book or what it is about. I think some warning is helpful so you are prepared when the child is upset and/or needs to talk about it.

I read a lot of WWII books as a child and with my children. GMT is one of the most distressing as it's not death by random bombing or even mass death by a regime- but the betrayal of a child and baby by the person who is "supposed" to care. Yes a lot of children can read it with no problems, but the more empathetic could become very distressed.
Just as when I was a child I loved seeing the torture chambers in castles, but now I can empathise and find them deeply unpleasant.

I remember reading that when I was 8 and I was a bit shocked but it made me realise that sort of stuff went on ultimately and every parents isnt perfect.

The whole book is a bit like that tbf, Angel. The Pilot husband getting burnt, his best friend dying in a bombing raid, the physical abuse. I think I realised from the start it wasnt going to hold back and thats why I liked it.

I don't think it's about the school reassuring parents that they'll handle it sensitively, more a case of letting them know that it will raise some pretty difficult issues that a child might also want to think and talk about at home. And I do think children are very different in terms of what they've been exposed to at that age. Yes, some will be watching some pretty violent stuff and reading gory books (though as discussed above, there's a big difference between fantasy violence and 'realistic' trauma), but equally plenty won't. They're not all watching Harry Potter at 6 and Hunger Games at 9 and playing 18 rated games in KS2.

Don't forget too, that the book is specifically written for children and the way children read about this event in the cupboard is quite different to the way us adults, particularly as parents read it.

It is shocking for everyone, but it is probably more horrifying for us as adults to consider. Children are learning new things about the world al the time and take them as a matter if course and matter of fact, usually without dwelling on them. Lots of children will read the words on the page which tell them that the baby is dead and that will seem very sad. They will think at different levels about why that has happened and many will not give it huge thought but quickly move on. It is deliberately not spelled out in this book. As adults, we immediately know what has happened and are horrified, but it is subtly put.

Teachers would choose an appropriate discussion level. Some have mentioned some might exclude that passage (not many I'd imagine) and they would probably talk about how the mother is ill and not able to look after the children. They probably wouldn't strongly push or develop the details of the abuse. Most children will go away knowing the baby has died and being sad and shocked by that, but in the same kind of way they are sad and shocked when they hear about all kinds of other unpleasant things, such as war, hunger, natural disaster. However, again, they move on quickly to think about other things.

This book is a children's classic and continues to be taught because it is suitable and a powerful story. It has shocking elements which are carefully written for children of around 10-13 to bring out a major shocking issue, ut written about in a careful way. It raises issues about parents not always being good parents and it finishes with real hope.

I do agree that in times of remote learning, teachers have less direct contact with children and sometimes need to adjust the order of topics taught and think about how things are covered, but this isn't the same as saying the book is unsuitable or that parents should necessarily be warned about any books being looked at with difficult themes.

Pretty sure I was in y4 or 5 when we did Goodnight, Mr Tom. I was in a tiny primary school with 50 kids, we only had 2 classes. Class 1 was Reception, yr1 and 2. Class 2 was yrs3, 4, 5 and 6 so when we read it the pupils ranged from 7-10!

Thabks for all the replies. Some teally interesting points made. From my point of view, i have no issue with GMT or its storyline nor any other emotive subjects and think discussing such subjects through storytelling is a fantastic way to explore issues. However i do agree with some posters suggesting that there does need to be a trigger warning for kids and parents (no different to trigger warnings on posts on mumsnet). I also agree with the importance of support available when reading and exploring topics which will be different for each child.

In this instance - i messaged his teacher to assess where they were in the book so i could ensure he wasnt alone when reaching difficult bits of the storyline and therefore we could discuss after and to ascertain exactly what support was being given. I am acutely aware both personally and professionally that covering such topics without support can be awful and sadly can be a missed opportunity when it could matter most.

A few posters also raised the issue of 'just letting teachers get on with their jobs'. Personally teachers can be lacking when it comes to addressing childrens individual emotional needs. This i think will only be exacerbated by increased stress and demands placed on teachers time at the moment combined with the fact that providing emotional support is going to be logistically more difficult owing to home schooling.

I studied the book at that age and loved it. Yes it is shocking in parts, but that was how many children lived in those times (and sadly some still do).

I know the chapter you’re referring to, with the death of the baby. I think it was sensitively written. Shocking and awful, but without the chapter of tragedy and terror the reader (and Mister Tom) cannot understand just how much he’s been through.

In general the book tells the story of a child overcoming a traumatic early life, living through war and abuse, then finding peace and happiness and regaining his trust in adults. And Mister Tom in turn benefits from raising him, and helps him heal the bitterness left by the loss of his own family.

One shocking chapter, but a positive book overall.

I think it's well known that the main character Willie is a victim of child abuse. It's the major point of the plot. It's a very sad book.
I think it's actually beautiful (possibly not the right word but I hope this makes sense) that Willie tries to take care of his baby sister - even giving her a name. For a child who had been badly abused by his mother his instinct is to protect and care for the baby.
I didn't read Goodnight Mr Tom until I was 16 though. I think some of it would have gone over my head if I had read it when younger. Even at 16 some parts passed me by really. Only really reading it as an adult you find yourself thinking did the mother gave mental health issues? How did she end up pregnant - random bloke she met down the pub or prostitution ? Was she actually taken advantage of which is why she abuses Willie? There are so many layers to this book some of which your only become aware of as you get older and more experienced of life.

I agree too. Brilliant book with one chapter which needs to be read and discussed, not just leaving a child to imagine what it's like to be locked in a cupboard with the corpse of your baby sibling. Novels invite us in, with our imaginations. But an 11 year old may need some help to know how to process that imagination, and understand how to respond.

I have no problem with Boy in the Striped Pyjamas being taught either, but there is a place there for careful discussion and awareness of how different students respond. Really important to enable them to respond - so time it right and don't just send 'em off to Geography, without the opportunity to talk about how they feel, or just to feel how they feel in a safe space.

looneytune253 my daughter's class watched the Boy in the Striped Pyjamas film in Year 6 after studying the book. Parents had to sign a consent form as it's a 12A certificate. We were warned the children may become upset by the film and the children were told they could leave the room at any time if they felt they needed to. When the class came out at the end of the day they were all silent. This class was never silent in the 7 years in the school. Even the class clowns were silent.
But I had read the book when the class was reading it (as I had never read it before). I got quite angry with it and the stupidity of Bruno's character. While talking to a group of the children (while in a class parent/child reading session) I had a bit of a rant about how much I hated the character of Bruno how thick he was and went on about how annoyed I was with him and the other characters - eventually being told by my daughter "chill Mum it's just a book". The children were very emotional after seeing the film but at that age they seem to bounce back quickly.
Me on the other hand still refer to Bruno as 'that stupid child Bruno'.

One of my favourites. We read it in y6 i think and I've read several times since. Its a hard read but well worth it and i think manageable for that age group.

@Spongebobsquarefringe

In the true spirit of lockdown I read it as captain Tom and thought he has a book?

It’s important all issues are covered and it’s great that you were able to speak to your son even though it might be triggering for you.

It’s difficult as they are following the curriculum and this is maybe the point they would cover it, no harm expressing your concerns to the school, they could have sent an email outlining what they intended to teach this term so it could have prepared parents particularly if they are dealing with such subjects and what support is in place, this may not help your feelings now but it might make them aware in the future and prevent someone feeling how you do.

@Spongebobsquarefringe Captain Tom does indeed have a book and it is excellent.

Goodnight Mr Tom is also one of my favourite books and the whole thing is sensitively done I thought.

I read this at a similar age and remember finding it shocking and distressing. It’s making me feel a bit cold just thinking about it now, and it’s been 25 years since I read it. It is age-appropriate, though.

Seriously at 11yo, most children are playing on quite violent video games. Most of them will have seen porn at least once.

This attitude disgusts me. Some of us are bringing up our children appropriately. Some children are not horrifically densensitised to something that should be, to child living in an appropriate child's world, horrific. It's not a race to the bottom.

the way children read about this event in the cupboard is quite different to the way us adults, particularly as parents read it.

Actually, no.

Children are much more like the rest of us, and respond to trauma like the rest of us, than you allow.

wombat

You clearly think you're an authority. I find you incredibly condescending and sweeping, and not nearly as well versed in child psychology as you think.

My mother was more pissed off that they describe breastfeeding. In her opinion, it was a disgusting thing that would never have been shown to a boy and everybody gave their babies bottles in any case. That bit had to be explained to me by a friend.

The abuse and death didn't bother me in the slightest. Mainly because the cupboard under our stairs was too full of stuff for her to lock me in she did that to my older brother in his room in their old house . I was bothered about being so thick I didn't know they were referring to pregnancy when talking about the teacher, though; I didn't have any comprehension of somebody being so warm and kind.

Might have been useful if there had been a teacher talking about these things, rather than just making us plough through it out loud. I do remember that she took over reading out the return to Deptford part (mainly because she couldn't mimic Tom's attempt of saying Deptford). Maybe the way William's mother just sounded like a slightly more cartoonish version of my mother would have rung a few warning bells.

@WombatChocolate

When I look back at this passage, it's still one of the most harrowing I've ever read. I've read a lot of books, but this one about child neglect and abuse, which is so extreme as to leave a child locked in a cupboard with a baby to both starve, which results in a small boy holding his dead sister, is just shocking. It's shocking because it involves children and because it happens. Fantasy horrors etc never strike so much as they simply aren't real.

I think as adults, it hits us more too. We abhor the idea of this happening to a child or an adult doing this to a child. And it is a loss of innocence for our children when they read it and discover something dark about the world.

But at the same time it is written for children of around 10. And children take different things from it than adults do and they understand it on a level that is right for them too. My 8 year old reading it understood what had happened when we read it and talked about it. She agreed it was a horrible and wrong thing to happen...but I do t think it played any more on her mind then as a horrible thing that shouldn't happen, anymore than her brother stealing her sweets or other minor horrible things she could think of. And it's not quite spelled out in the passage what has happened, so children need to draw on what they already do know and understand, or what a teacher or parent might help them towards seeing to understand it at a different levels.

The world is full of horrors and one of parent and teachers roles is to show children, appropriately about these. I do think fiction is a good way to deal with many issues and it is right that children start to learn about the real world. Through fiction my DC have learned about prostituion, female genital mutilation, abuse, the holocaust, racism, genocide, bullying, depression, domestic violence.....Their lives and minds aren't darkened and spoiled by knowing about these things, but they are gradually growing up and able to think about and talk about the ideas in light of the story and the real world. Upper Primary onwards is a journey to adulthood and there's lots to learn and find out about.

This is a great analysis. I first read GMT as a teenager, I have read it aloud in class to Y6 as a teacher ( and cried) and am now reading it to my Y6 son. It think it is the most beautiful book as it contains such sadness and happiness but ends with such hope and an understanding that we have to live with the sad things by embracing the happy things. I my experience, children understand it at their own level. In your son's circumstances, he is obviously aware enough to get the deeper meaning in the saddest parts of the story. Lots of children miss that and are far more affected by Zach. I think it is probably best that he read it at home and could talk to you- at school he might have found it harder. In general, as adults, we have to understand that we see things in books that children just don't see. In fact, I will think twice about showing my son the John Thaw film, brilliant though it was, as I think the abuse is far more explicit. You might want to bear that in mind and check whether the school will be showing it at some point. You obviously have a very mature son and an open and honest relationship with him. Well done and big hugs for what you have been through yourself.

YABU

My kids have read this, never mentioned the cupboard bit, but they read alot, I just let them get on with it

It is a beautiful book and of course it can be read alone