To think a "breathing" sex robot should be illegal

[CrotchBurn]

Apparently there is an AI sex robot that now has the feature of breathing (there's a video in the article in the link).

I don't really care how these ultra realistic sex dolls might help people for various reasons. I think in a world where men overwhelming treat women as unfeeling objects (yeah okay NAMALT), further blurring the lines between womens bodies and inanimate objects you can do what you want to is dangerous.

I think they should be illegal.

www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/sex-robot-breathes-incredible-ai-23275331

And they said it was just pulp sci fi

Yet here we are, a new century and the closest we are to AI, to humaniform robots, are sex dolls. Compliant, life like women you can kill 10 times daily!

@PoleToPole
It is very likely to aid in the escalation of the behaviour of men with those tendencies though, for all the reasons I and others have specified.

No it’s not. That is just pure nasty speculation on your part. There is zero evidence that sex dolls cause escalation of sex offending behaviour. There isn’t even a correlation between the two!

Have to agree to disagree on the masturbation vs sex thing because I think fundamentally you cannot get past your unconscious bias.

Yes it is violence, in the same way that someone punching a wall is violence, and yes you were behaving violently with your dolls. Surely you can see that?

Er no it’s not. Violence requires another person must be present or involved. “World Health Organization's definition of violence as "the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death..”

You can’t be violent to a doll, because it’s not alive.

@Buddytheelf85
these men are acting out fantasies of violent, degrading sex with real women on the dolls

There’s no evidence that they are acting out fantasies of violent, degrading sex with real women. None at all. You have no idea what these men were thinking, what their fantasies are. In addition, you are assuming that while they do x to a doll, they are thinking of doing x to a real woman, you don’t know that either. It is all paranoid speculation. You are ridiculously expecting men to treat a sex doll as if it were a real woman. No one is going to do that because it’s a doll not a woman.

Yes I am very aware of the marketing of these sex dolls as being “realistic” but honestly, have you watched any of the videos with these dolls? It is blatantly obvious they are no where near what I’d consider realistic. They are clearly plastic dolls. And since these are the “most realistic” ones you can buy today, it’s not saying much at all.

Also, can we please stop drawing comparisons between children playing with dolls and adult men shagging sex toys? Learning about the world through imaginative play is a very normal stage of child development and the comparisons with the sexual behaviour of adult males are misplaced and also nauseating.

No Plan, the definition of violence (Oxford English Dictionary) is:

Behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.

Not just a person, but an object too.

No it’s not. That is just pure nasty speculation on your part. There is zero evidence that sex dolls cause escalation of sex offending behaviour. There isn’t even a correlation between the two!

My heart bleeds, what a mega meanie I am. There is plenty of correlation, but as ever none so blind as those who will not see.

Have to agree to disagree on the masturbation vs sex thing because I think fundamentally you cannot get past your unconscious bias.

Understandably your experiences have shaped your views, as my experiences have mine.

Sorry buddy

I wasn't trying to link them together in a sense if them being exactly the same thing.

Just trying to point out that things are never just things and that the behaviour towards them does matter.

Now obviously the reasons behind kids having toys and what they do and adult males are completely different, I just meant that it doesn't really follow that behaviour towards objects is meaningless. Because it isn't. I dont think you can detach it like that. You can tell plenty of things about adults by watching what they do with inanimate objects. How they drive their cars. How they slam things about. Do they take care of their things etc

Its all relevant

@Whatwouldscullydo

Apologies, I wasn’t referring to your post but to @PlanDeRaccordement’s insistence on comparing his/her play with a Malibu Barbie as a child to a grown man having sex with a doll.

@PoleToPole

Ah well, you can think your country’s local definition of violence trumps an international world definition of violence. But I won’t agree.

There is plenty of correlation, between use of sex dolls escalating sex offending? Well then please list this plentitude of scientific studies that have shown this correlation. And don’t forget you said use of sex doll causes an escalation in sex offending...so you’re going have to show scientific studies that have proven not only correlation, but causation. Otherwise it’s just speculation. Hot air.

@Buddytheelf85
I only mentioned my barbies in response to @Whatwouldscullydo’s post in the first place. Happy to drop it. It’s not really the same anyway. Not that adults can’t play with dolls too.

I’m a woman by the way so you can use her/she etc

It isn't being a "cool girl" to find these dolls revolting, creepy and error BUT to question whether the existence of them would make a non-violent man into a violent attacker.

If the man is non-violent to start with, then surely he is more likely to have such a doll for the "girlfriend experience" of masturbation. Sure, that's weird as fuck to me, but if it means he doesn't use sex workers then I can see the upside in that.

If he IS a violent lunatic who wants these dolls to act out aggressive fantasies, then surely having them as another line of "defence" before he progresses to ACTUAL women is helpful? (Badly worded but hope you see what I mean).

To me, it seems that men who DO have these sick and violent fantasies will have them anyway. If they DO tend to escalate their behaviour, then surely an extra step in that escalation, BEFORE they get to real women, can only keep women safe for longer.

The whole thing is sick and perverted, I am just not sure where the logic is that it is the existence of the dolls which give the men these fantasies, and somehow "enables" men who would otherwise have no thought of strangling women. They would have the thoughts anyway!

Perhaps it would be better to keep a register of the men who buy them in case their behaviour escalates to the real deal in future. It at least may keep real women safe for 6 months while they use the doll for their perversion.

There’s no evidence that they are acting out fantasies of violent, degrading sex with real women. None at all. You have no idea what these men were thinking, what their fantasies are.

Well, neither do you. Perhaps you are right, that the majority of men who purchase sex dolls wish to have loving respectful sex with them - the loving respectful sex they can’t have with a human woman (and of course they are very unlikely to hold any resentment about that fact). However, I believe there have been some observational programmes on this (a poster references one on the first page) which have shown that at conventions for these dolls a large proportion of men, when allowed access to them, engage in extremely violent sexual behaviour towards them.

Also, another poster shared a link upthread where an academic who has studied the history of sex toys commented that it isn’t a coincidence that these sex dolls were developed around the same time that women were liberated sexually - and could therefore say no. There was therefore increasing demand for women who wouldn’t, or couldn’t, say no.

So I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s paranoid speculation.

As for the realism point - no, they aren’t especially realistic. But they’re supposed to be, and they’re getting ever more realistic - that’s the point of the breathing. And if we take your ‘it’s not real so it’s fine’ argument to its logical conclusion, then anything is ok provided it’s not real, isn’t it? These doll manufacturers can make child sex dolls - it’s fine, don’t be so hysterical, it’s not real! Except, wait, it’s (rightly) illegal....

All this ' low bar' and ' cool wife ' stuff makes me laugh.
It's a doll.

These doll manufacturers can make child sex dolls - it’s fine, don’t be so hysterical, it’s not real! Except, wait, it’s (rightly) illegal....

I agree that the female dolls are grim but this is a false equivalence. Rape (I won't say sex) with children is illegal. Sex with women isn't.

If the man is non-violent to start with, then surely he is more likely to have such a doll for the "girlfriend experience" of masturbation. Sure, that's weird as fuck to me, but if it means he doesn't use sex workers then I can see the upside in that

I don't see how tbh. You get plenty of so called "nice men" who use sex workers. They think they are better than the others because they show respect or don't pound away til they are bleeding ajd maybe even converse with them thinking they are building a friendship almost. Underneath it all is still the same self pitying entitled attitude, where the answer is to pay for your "right" to sex rather than go to the trouble of being someone a woman might want a relationship with.

Same with this tbh. So what if their intentions aren't to re enact some violent fantasy. But equally with no consent required and no boundries put in place we don't know of it will escalate or not. And they still quite possibly see it as making them better than the others somehow because they don't do certain things or they aren't sleeping with women

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/truth-behind-who-really-buys-sex-dolls-man-who-makes-most-realistic-ones-you-can-buy-10475375.html

To offset the gloomy path this thread is on about sex dolls as proxies for abusing women. This is an Independent article where a man working for one of the companies relates the most common reasons why the customers he has worked with buy sex dolls.

-a man who bought a doll for sex only to discover that he really cared for it, to the point of brushing her hair out of her face as he walked past. He soon found a community of friends online; “normal people craving connection” who frequent internet forums to talk about their dolls and share photos.

-others...a doll to help them emotionally after the loss of a partner. These buyers may not be ready to date again but don't like being home alone either, so they order a doll as a “bridge” until their confidence returns.

-Couples buy dolls as well as singletons, a trend Matt puts down to desire. “The human is a sexual animal with an appetite,” he says. “Couples find the dolls a safe way to introduce another partner as there are no emotions. It’s sexual exploration without cheating.” Dolls are sometimes introduced as sexual surrogates when one partner is unable to enjoy sex, often for health reasons, but the couple do not want outside lovers.

-There have been a couple of incidents where people have come to us and out and out asked for a child and in that case we turn them over to the authorities.” Requests for likenesses of ex-partners are also immediately turned down unless consent is given and celebrities are approached with caution.

@Whatwouldscullydo

If the man is non-violent to start with, then surely he is more likely to have such a doll for the "girlfriend experience" of masturbation. Sure, that's weird as fuck to me, but if it means he doesn't use sex workers then I can see the upside in that

I don't see how tbh. You get plenty of so called "nice men" who use sex workers. They think they are better than the others because they show respect or don't pound away til they are bleeding ajd maybe even converse with them thinking they are building a friendship almost. Underneath it all is still the same self pitying entitled attitude, where the answer is to pay for your "right" to sex rather than go to the trouble of being someone a woman might want a relationship with.

Same with this tbh. So what if their intentions aren't to re enact some violent fantasy. But equally with no consent required and no boundries put in place we don't know of it will escalate or not. And they still quite possibly see it as making them better than the others somehow because they don't do certain things or they aren't sleeping with women

Well, we shall have to beg to differ. I would always prefer a man use a sex doll to a living sex worker. Yes, the commodification of women is problematic, but if the bloke is such an ape that he sees women in these terms, then protecting some ACTUAL women is better than protecting none, in my eyes.

The patriarchy has always viewed women as objects. It's repulsive that they still do. But that is sadly the reality. We can wish for nirvana where no men see women in these terms, and hopefully that will happen in time, but I don't want to throw real sex workers under the bus in the interim.

This boils down to male desires. They can't be policed. We can argue against violent porn exposing men to this more and I would agree that needs to be dealt with. But removing sex dolls, a safer outlet for perversion, isn't going to reduce the current sickos need to get off on it. It does remove an avenue which may protect live women a bit though.

Well we don't know if it is a safe outlet or whether it escalates as a result of conditioning which someone else has explained up thread.

Mastabation is part of a healthy loving relationship as well as a solo activity but can also escalate to taking over and getting in the way not only of physical sensation of actual sex but of the relationship aswell. It can escalate to porn and all that brings. I dont think we cab safely assume this is sone end game distraction when truth is theres just as much chance it can be a stepping stone to more . Wonen aren't any safer if that's the case

@Buddytheelf85
I’m sorry but I don’t agree with the constant conflation of actual women and sex dolls. Sex dolls are not “women who couldn’t say no” please stop talking about sex dolls as if they were women.

The academic who observed the correlation between sexual liberation movement from the 1960s and more sex toys goes too far. Yes men and women were both equally liberated to explore sex and things like fetishes and sex toys began to become more mainstream. But I disagree completely that sexual liberation “increased demand for women who wouldn’t say no”. In fact the exact opposite, the demand didn’t change, but sexual liberation increased the supply of women who wouldn’t say no. We had the birth control pill, so pregnancy was a very tiny risk. We started to socially encourage premarital sex for women, multiple lovers for women, even tolerate extramarital sex/polyamory (called swingers then). Compare before sexual liberation and after, and you have far more women not only saying yes to casual sex, but actively seeking it out.

I would always prefer a man use a sex doll to a living sex worker. Yes, the commodification of women is problematic, but if the bloke is such an ape that he sees women in these terms, then protecting some ACTUAL women is better than protecting none, in my eyes.

^This is a great point.

The point is that they are a proxy for a woman who can't say no. We are the ones objecting to the blurring of lines between women as figurative and literal objects, not creating them.

Maybe there are many innocent men who use and enjoy them in a nurturing (wouldn't go as far as to say healthy) way. It still doesn't mean their existence can't make a statement about the treatment and perception of women. And that is what some of us find concerning.

"Compare before sexual liberation and after, and you have far more women not only saying yes to casual sex, but actively seeking it out."

But choosing a partner of their choice, not necessarily the person that feels entitled to them.
Woman being able to have consensual sex doesn't mean men get what they want. It's this agency to choose that many men feel is unfair. Eg incel culture.

I agree that the female dolls are grim but this is a false equivalence. Rape (I won't say sex) with children is illegal. Sex with women isn't.

Oh I appreciate that. My point is that I don’t think we can just say ‘it’s not real and bears no relation to reality so it’s fine’.

Raping children is illegal. Therefore sex with something designed to resemble a child is also illegal. Rightly. Because it bears a relation to reality. It is immoral, disgusting and illegal to rape a real child and it is immoral, disgusting and illegal to rape a pretend one. I don’t think many people would dispute that.

You say sex with adult women is legal, by which you obviously mean sex with fully consenting adult women is legal (not all sex with women is legal). Raping an adult woman isn’t legal. So that’s where the disconnect lies, in my view. Imprisoning a women in your home and engaging in violent non-consensual sex with her is immoral, disgusting and illegal. But imprisoning a pretend woman in your home and raping and beating her is... fine, because it’s not real.

Of course I appreciate the logistical difficulties - no one can police what a man does with a doll in his own home, he may or may not perform illegal acts with it (or rather, acts that would be illegal with a real woman). But the point of these dolls is a woman to do what you want with, whether that’s illegal or not, and no one can stop you.

@Whatwouldscullydo
But equally with no consent required and no boundries put in place we don't know of it will escalate or not.

Why would a sex doll need to consent or have boundaries? It’s not a woman (or a man). It’s not even an animal that we’d need to be humane to. It’s an object with no more feelings or soul than my toaster.

The more you and other posters draw parallels between the treatment of sex dolls and actual real women, the more you objectify women. Look I know patriarchy has conditioned us to think women are objects, but seriously, you can only seriously think objects are women if you agree that women are objects.

@Buddytheelf85
the majority of men who purchase sex dolls wish to have loving respectful sex with them

There is no such things as having “loving and respectful sex” with a sex doll because it’s an object. You can only think that if you think women are also objects. Sex dolls are objects. Women are not. The only thing you do sexually with an object is masturbate. You do not have sex with it.

@PearlescentIridescent

The point is that they are a proxy for a woman who can't say no. We are the ones objecting to the blurring of lines between women as figurative and literal objects, not creating them.

Maybe there are many innocent men who use and enjoy them in a nurturing (wouldn't go as far as to say healthy) way. It still doesn't mean their existence can't make a statement about the treatment and perception of women. And that is what some of us find concerning.

I agree that the treatment and perception of women as objects is problematic. Personally, I would rather "know my enemy" and be able to steer clear of men with sick perversions, than there being no way of telling WHAT the bloke is imagining.

A sex doll in a house is going to display more red flags than a Chairman Mao convention to the average woman.

If we dont have the means to have external evidence of the man's tendencies, would you rather find out his inclinations for the first time in bed? I sure as hell wouldn't.

The existence of these dolls may also act as "enough" for some men that they don't feel the need to approach real women for sex. If that's the case, then ipso facto, we are REALLY better off without them being in the dating pool.

@Buddytheelf85
sex with something designed to resemble a child is also illegal.

Child sex dolls are illegal for the same reason nude pictures of children are illegal. Because it’s illegal to own any images or other sex toy objects resembling children for masturbation purposes.

That’s why adult sex dolls ARE legal. Because they are sex toys to be used by adults for legal masturbation purposes.