AIBU to think it’s ok to put kids (4 and 1) into kids club on a ski holiday

[Needallthesleep]

Obviously not this year! Planning for the future.

DH and I love to ski, and given what a shocker this year has been for holidays (plus we have a newborn so not like we can go away anyway) we are planning an epic one next year.

It would be the first time going skiing with our kids, and are planning on putting the 4 year old into ski school and the 1 year old into kids club so we can ski.

For context we are looking at doing 14 nights in a very kid friendly hotel in France with childcare on site. We are planning a 2 week break so that we (and the children) can have some relaxed days together at the pool/sledging and me and DH still get a decent amount of time skiing.

MIL thinks that’s mean. And I am wracked with mum guilt about our plans now. Are my plans unreasonable?

I've worked in these clubs so I'm not knocking them.

Too young.

@tootsytoo you have had your opinion and I’m telling you mine. I’m not against kids club I understand what your saying. Just not at 1 to me that is a baby. At aged 4 yes maybe.

I went skiing a lot as a child. My parents used to do this with me and my brother every year (1-3 in crèche, 4-12 in ski lessons followed by kids club) and we both loved it. Now as adults my brother is a ski instructor so it can't have damaged him that much.

@bibbidybobbidyboo precisely but on MN it literally is almost considered as child abuse

YANBU

Definitely not. Kids enjoy doing kiddie things - adults like doing adult things! At that age they’ll have a ball and at ski prices you should enjoy yourself!
FYI - we went with a 10 & 14 year olds - we all ended up in different ski lessons every morning anyway and spent the afternoons together ... they loved it, we lived it!

I think it sounds great and I would do it !

@Billiesam to answer your second question...I know someone who has worked in kids clubs abroad and took a job as a manager at a gym crèche when she came back from a summer season as a stop gap...she quit the gym crèche very quickly and was shocked by how unprofessional and disinterested in the children’s welfare the staff were while parents weren’t present.

Also your initial reply did sound pretty xenophobic.

In terms of how children settle...I worked for a couple of babysitting and nannying agencies as a student and I was surprised by the fact that all of the children were perfectly happy to have a stranger come snd look after them. I suspect their parents knew them well enough to make that decision.

Something I would add though is that when I went to sign up for one of the agencies (a national company here in the UK) I took along all my qualifications, police check, training certificates etc and on the bus home I realised that I hadn’t actually been asked to show them, they were just ticked off the list when I said I had them. Could’ve been an empty envelope for all they knew!

@Yourcatisnotsorry...what if none of those things you suggested happen and the OP and her children have a wonderful time? What a shame for them to miss out on a fantastic opportunity. We all have different experiences and priorities to you and that doesn’t necessarily mean that either side is wrong or right! The thought of backpacking round South America with small children doesn’t appeal to me, and at the same time I can see that it would be an amazing experience for those it does appeal to. Just to play devils advocate...who was that for trip for? At such a young age children are still holding a strong sense of wonder and learning about the world. They would have been able to have amazing fun experiences at home with you too.

Either way both options could be a wonderful experience for a family while neither appeal to me in the slightest.

@Thisgroupneverceasestoamazeme I never asked any questions it was a reply to another poster and I gave my opinion. I think my opinion is fair enough.

I’ve travelled with own Son from 18months old to Spain and to third world Countries.

You don’t know anything about me. I never said I wouldn’t leave my older child in a kids club.

What I said was I wouldn’t leave my baby.
Back off. I think that’s fair at only 12 months.

@Billiesam I was answering this question you asked about leaving children in a British gym crèche
I do agree with your point to some extent but it’s not the same is it? Or is it?

You sound very defensive.

The 4 year old won't be able to ski unless you put him in ski school, right?! So nothing to feel guilty about there.

@Thisgroupneverceasestoamazeme the poster asked me about. I said I do agree to some point because they are right people leave their children all the time. The part that I don’t agree with it’s in your hometown.

I’m not defensive I think it’s one sided of you to make out like I wouldn’t leave my child I would. I just wouldn’t leave my baby.

Don’t try and gas light me into what you have written.

Depends on the child. I had to use a new childminder for my 1 year old with no settling in and for some reason she was just cool with it. The older one (4/5), I've tried to raise to listen to teachers so I imagine could do ski school.

Mom guilt? What, guilty feeling giving your 4/5 an intro to an independent sport he could potentially enjoy the rest of his life? Giving your younger one an opportunity to have a holiday in a space dedicated to children, a complete "yes" room with a menu catered for his/her age. It's sometimes hard to go to a restaurant and find a suitable menu choice for the younger one in my experience....

I think it sounds wonderful - you've put a lot of thought and consideration into it. Hope you have a lovely time!

Apologies that you experienced it as gaslighting. It sounds as though I didn’t articulate myself well.

I wasn’t particularly commenting on you personally or your children. I was sharing a perspective on the question ‘that’s not the same, or is it?’ To give some evidence that gym crèches over here aren’t always well regulated. The paragraph about how babies and children settle wasn’t aimed at you at all but I wasn’t clear on that. It was in answer to all the posters saying that they don’t think a baby would settle with strangers. I know our son certainly wouldn’t. He wouldn’t cope with a holiday at all. Other children would love it, they’re all different.

It wasn’t intended as a personal attack on your parenting or opinions so apologies for not wording it very well

@Needallthesleep if you think your kids will be happy then go for it! Although, a lot of the people I've spoken to and in my experience it did go wrong so you have to be prepared to not ski or take it in turns if it does.

I've skied since I was a kid and DH and I have skied every year until I got pregnant so we were desperate to go with the baby and 3.5 year old who we thought was old enough, and would enjoy it. It backfired. My parents were with us so helped a bit but mum broke her ankle so mostly we ended up in the apartment with two kids and my mum who couldn't get out!

Our 3.5 year old went to kids club, however our travel agent booked us somewhere with English speaking kids club and teachers. This wasn't the case, totally not the ski schools fault either but all the instructor could do was drag him up the slope and shout don't cry at him. He did join in by the end of the first morning but he was terrified so we didn't send him back. We should have researched better, we've been skiing for a long weekend without the kids since but are now leaving it til the youngest is old enough to go into ski school with the eldest to take the kids again, and will choose our resort and school very carefully. Our eldest was in full time childcare too and used to being looked after by friends and family but the absolute strangeness of being left at ski club was too.mich for him.

Les Arcs doesn't get the most sun and can be very cold at certain points in the day when we've been there, if your kids aren't really really good at coping with the cold you will need to think about that. If you already know Les Arcs well then ignore me. I think from our bad experience when we do take the kids again we'll go somewhere we know well.

Only you know if your kids will cope with it and more importantly enjoy it, if you're having any doubts then I'd say wait after my experience and a few others I know who have had similar. Only you really know how your kids are likely to take to it.

But YANBU at all to do it, if your kids enjoy it what a fantastic experience for them and a magical holiday you will all have. Definitely don't assume you'll get lots of skiing in though, even if they love the clubs, it'll only be a few hours on those club days.

Go and enjoy

the holiday is for you all to enjoy the kids will be safer in kids clubs while you ski that's what the clubs are for and the little ones will have friends to play with happy holidays

Hmm mine hated childcare at those ages and would have both gone mental in this scenario.

That said I have mum guilt that we haven’t taken our now early teens skiiing. Most of our friends ski and their kids now amazing skiers ours are not! So the guilt will get you somehow!

Sorry to have to warn you but a lot of 4-year-olds (and older kids) hate ski school. You might get lucky but even my DSD used to cry and protest after 1 hour of ski school and she was about 7 at the time. They get cold, their gloves get wet (somehow) or they fall over and want their mum. I think parents are expected to watch at least the first day of ski school to make sure they settle.

The baby should be fine in kids club. Does the club take older children? Might be easier to put them both into kids club and save ski school for when he’s a bit older. Kids usually know the basics of skiing when they start ski school, maybe you and DH can teach him first or practice skiing a bit or have a private teacher for him before going straight to ski school?

We booked and then cancelled a ski holiday when our son was 1, as I couldn’t get my head around leaving him every day and knew he’d hate it. We also went on a Scott Dunn holiday with two other families when he was 1.5 and found they were happy to leave their children with a nanny all day and we weren’t.... perhaps unsurprisingly, their kids were happy with the nanny and ours wasn’t! Every family and child is different.
When they’re older and can actually go to ski school it’s different - as a previous poster pointed out, it’s how they learn to ski! But let’s be honest - the baby will never actually remember it so you need to decide how important it is to have the time with your DH. On balance it might be the best thing for your family, but don’t do it if you’ll spend the whole time feeling guilty and won’t actually be able to relax.

We've had some pretty bad experiences with Esprit and seen a lot of crying kids there. Ski Norway were loads better. Going with friends so the kids can go in together worked well - then they had a ball.

Before I had kids I always thought why would you go on holiday and get rid of your kids. Then I had mine and my second attended every kids club when we went away, I just needed the headspace.

I worked full time so used childcare, so holidays were important to me to spend with my daughter., for both of us this was important

I can’t imagine also wanting to holiday and have them in childcare too like this. A day or two maybe but not like what you’re planning,

Don’t get me wrong, you don’t need to spend holidays with your kids. You can continue to just see them as you normally do in the evenings if you both prefer to ski, but personally I wouldn’t wish to do it, and I would judge you both for it.

Entirely depends what kind of kids you have. If the the older one is outgoing and physically able, and if the staff are good, he/she may well love ski school. If he isn't both of those things he may hate it. As for the baby, there is no way to tell whether he/she will be ok with being left with total strangers in a strange place. My guess is no - most one year olds won't do that willingly. You will be peeling off a crying, clinging baby every time you leave them and you will not enjoy your time skiing, to say nothing of how distressing it will be for your baby.

If it really has to be skiing I would take a trusted (by your children) baby sitter with you. Or leave the children home with grandparents and make it a long weekend with your DP. Or find a different nice holiday you can enjoy as a family.

We did this when our first was 18months old. There were some tears when we dropped him in childcare in the morning but he settled quickly (we waited for a few mins outside until we got the thumbs up from staff that he was ok). DH and I had an amazing time skiing and we got to spend more time than usual with DS (we had an hour or two each day just chilling or playing in the snow for a bit). We were in a chalet so we got a lovely meal cooked for us every evening after DS was asleep.

To be honest I’m kind of surprised now we were that relaxed about it, and didn’t get an huge attack of the guilts about leaving DS crying so we could ski.

But...we had no family help and very rarely a babysitter at home. This was literally the first time we’d had time to ourselves since DS was born. The break did us both the world of good!

Since then DH and I have done a couple of ski trips on our own while the other stays home with the children - we will probably start going as a family again when the DC are old enough for ski school.

I think its a great idea. When mine were little we did this at centreparcs. We also took the opportunity to have a few hours with just one child then the other. They were 4 and 1 at the time.