To think this is a bad way to spend £1000 community care grant

[milliec]

Message withdrawn

x-posted, colditz!

It's still her life that's being discussed. Would you like details of your life to be broadcast on the internet to hostile strangers even if your name wasn't used?

Also the responses here may very well influence how the OP responds to her when she has to deal with her directly again. Judgementalism is in apparently. I think nightshade's suggestion that the OP would be better to discuss the case with her supervisor was a good one.

It isn't a confidentiality or data protection issue at all but does beg the question, assuming the OP has a professional and influential role here, what on earth she is doing in the job if she really needs mumsnet to help her do it.

I'm all for a bit of alternative perspective but this seems to be beyond that somehow. Like specific advice seeking.

"'d love to know how much people here would need to spend if they had to replace everything they owned if they lost it in a fire. I bet it wouldn't be anywhere near £1k."

Just looking through the local free ads (I bought it to look for a walker for DS3 but there's none in there - poo). Anyhow, lets see what we could get for my £1000 in terms of "essentials" (or useful to have items).

Bedroom: Single bed (Divan with mattress) £20
2 Door wardrobe with 3 drawers underneath and matching 5 drawer chest £40 TOTAL £60

Kids bedroom/s: Toddler bed £20, Metal bunk bed with mattress £30, Childrens wardrobes x 2 and 5 drawer chest £30 TOTAL £80

Kitchen: Cooker/Hob - £40, Microwave £5, Fridge-freezer £20, Washing Machine £30, Kettle £5 *TOTAL £100

Living room/lounge/front room/dining room (whatever the "correct" term is ): 3 piece suite £50, TV £7, Table and Chairs £30 TOTAL £87

TOTAL PRICE - £327

She could then spend £100 on (new if she so wished) clothes for each of the children and still have £373 to go to Wilko's or similar and buy new little things - cooking equipement, cutlery, duvets/covers etc for the house.

When we moved into our first rented place 7yrs ago I remember my mum gave me £50 and sent me off to Poundland.......I came out with most of the basic stuff I would need to be able to cook a meal and eat it - plus a few extra bits.

And that's without taking into account free stuff that people may offer you, or stuff on freecycle.

Elizabethh, if I ever horrify someone with my spending priorities so much that they feel the need to discuss it anonymously with strangers on the internet, so be it.

Can you not whip up a little empathy for those children? Knowing their mum thought more to cosset her own selfish backside than provide them with somewhere nice to sleep?

Yeah because I'm sure everybody here would stick to a £1k budget. The point is that most people think that expensive things are good enough for them, just not for the underserving poor who have had house fires.

Is the stuff in your kitchen still from Poundland? I'm kind of guessing not.

I'm the one who would be happy to contribute to a whip-round for the kids' beds Colditz even though I'm very skint at the moment. At least one of the other posters who is busy judging the mother wouldn't go that far.

well actually yes some of it is my serving spoons/wooden spoons and set of knives has lasted amazingly well ......but over the years we've gradually built up new stuff to replace some of the old stuff (though I'm still sat here on the computer that DH built with a friend around teh same time we moved into that first rented house - urghh - it's nearly dead now LOL). Not to mention the old threadbare carpets, 3rd bedroom that's too cold to use as a bedroom - and is therefore used as a study until the time comes that we can afford to get it properly insulated etc etc etc.

However in the last 12 months we've bought a brand new fridge/freezer and washing machine - both of which were paid for with cash - not something we could do very often but we saved up.

I think in her position to spend that much money just on a Sofa is ridiculous. If you've got £1000 you budget to spend £1000, if you've got 10,000 - then you budget for that.

the stuff in my kitchen is mostly from poundland, yes.

That was the point I was making earlier. The people judging her are th ones who had to make that choice not long ago - to kit out properly, or blow it on one item - and we chose to kit out properly, albeit second hand or very cheap.

The people judging her harshly either have been poor or still are. We know what it is like to make that choice, but we made it, and we are furious that not only did she behave in an idiotic manner, but that she wuill have to be bailed out of her own dumb behavior.

I do not begrudge her that £1000 one little bit. The next grant (and she probably will get one) I will not begrudge as long as she is made to spend it sensibly. Chances are she will be left to it, and will buy something stupid again.

Elizabetth - your mising the point - the money would have no effect as the mother wouldn't pay for the basic essentials anyway.

the poster who said she is effectively holding her kids to ransom is right.

it's not the money that's the problem, it's the fact that the mother won't spend it on things for the children.

I don't begrudge her the money either - but the way she's spent it is crazy.

"Does anyone know that the chilren are actually on the floor? A blow ub double bed is £12 in Tesco - they'll be okay"

Alternatively she could have spent a hundred pounds or so on a set of bunk beds and got a slightly less good sofa. It's about priorities, which this woman obviously has issues with.

As for the original poster, I think you should just encourage her to see she's had all the money she's 'entitled' to, and continue with the information about good second hand stuff.

Sooner or later she'll be fed up of sleeping on the floor/inflatable mattress.

Agnes

Elizabethh - Imagine an alternative scenario.

Imagine a woman is given £50 to feed her children for a week. She has nothing else.

She decides to blow the £50 on a meal at a nice restaurant one evening. There is no more food for the week.

She then gets offers of homecooked food that people have made themselves and are willing to give to her free. She refuses to accept it.

Would you still feel sorry for her and expect people not to judge her foolishness?

No one is saying she didn't deserve the money. Just that she spent it badly and should not be allowed to do the same thing again.

whatever your feelings about this, you are completely out of order for putting it onto a public forum, i would imagine that if you were found out you could face losing your job, or at least you should. Yes some people take the piss, but she must have circumstances that dictate that she is entitled to the money, i could use a new bed, but i cant see the council or whoever just giving me the money. Maybe you should look for employment where you dont have to deal with scroungers like this

That situation is not analagous meemar.

But anyway who does judgement help? Would you judge the woman or feed the children? Which is more important? Because for some people on this thread judging the woman is more important.

And I still feel sorry for her and her kids that they were involved in such a traumatic even as a house fire in which they lost everything. Sympathy which appears to be (only an appearance mind you, maybe it's there but just isn't making itself known) missing from the other posters here, including the OP.

OK, have gone away and come back with a slightly different take.

Yes, she applied for the loan and has got it and spent it, perhaps unwisely, but that is her choice.

Presumably she will be turned down for extra grants as she isn't entitled to any more. And I suspect she will probably go away and get hold of second hand stuff because she will have no choice. In her own time, her choice.

So yes, none of my business really.

I thought when I was out how I shudder at food vouchers and the like, and realised that actually, I am pretty in favour of autonomy.

I'm with Elizabetth I think because while there is no doubt the spending was unwise, whatever makes someone so self obsessed that they'd prioritise like this deserves genuine sympathy. I also support autonomy and the notion that the poor should not have to do too much grovelling and justification.

No, I am all for no grovelling and self justification, all for autonomy too actually, but this woman is selfish and greedy.

The Oliver Twist analogy doesn't stand - he wan't given a farthing to buy his supper, to spend it on one organic hand reared peanut, then moan he had no supper. He ate the first lot of supper he was given.

And if this woman had done her best to clothes and furnish herself and the kids, to find herself still lacking, and so was asking for more, it wouldn't bother me.

but she didn't even try, did she!

Friends of mine lost absolutely everything they owned in a house fire and were lucky to escape with their lives so I do have real sympathy for this family. Their son was unable to represent the school in an event he had been chosen for because they couldn't replace his school uniform quickly enough which I think is just awful on the part of the school. They would have been happy to accept 2nd hand uniform rags if it meant he could take part.

However I just find this refusal to make do with 2nd hand or slightly cheaper stuff really, really hard to understand.

'The people judging her are th ones who had to make that choice not long ago - to kit out properly, or blow it on one item - and we chose to kit out properly, albeit second hand or very cheap. '

not necessarily Colditz- we're pretty borassic ourselves, and also set up home on mostly borroweds and the like- indded thre's still quite a lot we don't have, the colander broke last week at the £5 they wanted in Ikea was too much. when it comes down to it, the woman referred to in the OP is the one who'll be picking up the pieces when she runs out of cash- and for any of us 9certainly Dh and I) it takes a hard lesson before sensible finances kick in.

Can I just ask you again Elizabetth as you avoid the OP's question every time it's asked.

If you had to deal with the claimant as part of you job, what would you say to her ?

I think its all very well of you to condemn us as heartless and "I'm alright Jack" in our attitude, despite the fact that loads of us have said we do use second hand (bought or donated for free) stuff without feeling inadequate, but you cannot answer the OP's question other than to say "it's none of my business". That's just lame and shows an unwillingness/inability to grasp the whole scenario here This is taxpayers money we are talking about. Some of the posters on this thread would be taking home more much needed money after tax or receiving larger grants themselves if it was ensured that the money was used sensibly each time a grant was made.

You can't ensure a grant is 'wisely sued', not without ridiculous levels of beureaucracy- i refer you as a pertinent example to the foster careres who attend my ds's SN rugby club. We get DLA (disability living allowance) as do they- ours goes on- well what? special diets, therapy fee's, trips out as we cant have peolpe abck. the foster carers have to get eprmission fore very penny- seriosuly, they can't purchase a pakc of nappies or carton of soya milk without a permission slip.

Is that really sensible? or do you think it might just out off those who need help the most from applying?

Choosing not to jusge is a very valid stance to take, It is one I try and take myself. We know this woman is on benefits now- do we know why? no. She may have paid tax all her life until her aprtner died, or she went into a shelter, or whatever- or she may be feckless. The point is we don't know. We can't possibly understand why she made the decision she did. And until wecan know, then it is unfair of the rest of us to make judgement.

And a post further down from me does expalin exactly waht i would say to her in my professional, former role.

Peachy, are you and Elizabetth the same person ? [confused emoticon]

I love the idea that the beaurocracy involved is a valid reason to expect to have no control over taxpayers money given out in the form of grants.

Hey, lets not bothering checking any benefit claims. If someone claims they must need the money, lets just pay them. The money saved on staffing benefits departments would perhaps cover the increase in claims.

I don't mean to be rude or sarcastic but when you see the detailed budget setting preparation that goes on within government departments to account for how much funding they need it is mad that no-one is allowed to say, we need to ensure every penny of the grants we process through to claimants is spent wisely too.

P.S. they don't charge as much as £5 for a colander in poundland or wilko.

sorry havent read the entire thread, but want to know what happened. ( its therse separate pages. i cant cope with all this technology)
to the opost. this woman is playing the system for all she and it are worth. people liek this give thre rest of the country a bad name. lots of people are struggling on benefits. lots not on benefits are struggling. it would be wonderful if we could have free stuff. but we cant.

fwiw, a sofa was the last thing we bought. when we first moved into our first rented flat, (living with inlaws before that, we bought
second hand bed for us
second hand mattress, no bed stand for ds
a fridge freezer
a washing machine.
dh refused to buy a vacuum cleaner as he didnt think it essential

we already had a tv, and a computer, oh, and a royal doulton dinner set! we sat on the floor to watch tv for a good four months. and we were both earnging dec3ent money at the time.