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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think this isn’t murder

271 replies

AldiAisleofCrap · 13/01/2021 21:30

AIBU to think this is really wrong. In America four teenagers break into a house , the home owner fires a gun and one teenager dies. The boys age 17 are charged with murder and sentenced to 55 years in prison.
The judge said done one has to be held responsible but surely the teen who is dead is responsible for his own actions.

OP posts:
ChaToilLeam · 13/01/2021 23:28

@TheLisbonSisters

I don't agree with this but would also be interested to know if they have this law in Washington and if so whether the Capitol building invaders will be charged with murder and if not why not.
Now that would be interesting.
NewjobOldme · 13/01/2021 23:28

@Aloethere

I can't believe people are saying this is fair. These are 17 year olds who are now going to spend their lives in prison for breaking into a house. And yes depending on what happened exactly I think the man who did the shooting should be charged. Breaking into a house should not equal a death penalty.

I place pretty high value on human lives and I don't think it should be taken lightly. Someone being afriad that their tv would be robbed does not give them the right to execute somebody. Tvs can be replaced, the boys life is gone forever. I didn't read an article about this so if this man was threatened with his life then possibly I could understand him taking someone elses.

I don't think worrying your tv will get stolen covers it really. If 4 people of unknown age, possibly armed broke into your house it wouldn't be your Tv you are worrying about.
Mommyme74 · 13/01/2021 23:29

Every American has the right to protect life and property. These teens would have been fully aware of the consequences by breaking and entering another persons home. Nothing excuses their actions. It is what it is.

TheLisbonSisters · 13/01/2021 23:29

Thanks LochJessMonster

bluecheesefan · 13/01/2021 23:30

@CoRhona

It's supposed to stop this sort of thing happening and it's a great shame it doesn't. We now have traumatised teens who are going to spend their natural life institutionalised and a traumatised homeowner who has killed someone.

Dreadful outcome all round.

Well if those teens are traumatised, then it is their own fault for breaking into someone's house to commit a robbery. I have absolutely no sympathy whatever.

As for the homeowner - if they are traumatised, it is probably because they had to fight off four intruders who had broken into their house. It is certainly nothing to do with the verdict.

Bookriddle · 13/01/2021 23:31

If i was American, and 4 teenager's broke into my house, and my family was in the house aswell, especially my kids, i would not be taking any risk and i would use deadly force!

Someone broke into my parents house a few years ago, the guy did not expect my dad who is an ex para, to come running down the stairs waving a baseball bat, he restrained him, while the police wss on the way, turned out the guy was a druggy and was carrying a knife, my dad didnt take any chances

catmothertes1 · 13/01/2021 23:32

@BertieBotts

Wait what? The teenagers were charged with murder? Not the homeowner who actually shot the gun?
That's America for you! It's really a very different country.
ScreamingBeans · 13/01/2021 23:32

The USA's justice system is barbaric.

Next.

chomalungma · 13/01/2021 23:33

Imagine when you were a teenager and a friend of yours was showing off in their car, and you were part of that, just because it was what you did, maybe you were easily led.....

And then the driver, who you had little control over, but who had influence over you, ran someone over due to their behaviour.

Do you deserve to go to jail for that death?

BooFuckingHoo2 · 13/01/2021 23:34

I wonder how many parents on here would be happy if their teenager ended up as part of a group - and then someone in that group pulled a knife and stabbed someone?

If they were going for a walk no I wouldn’t be happy. If they were going out to commit a robbery I’d see the logic in them being held responsible yes.

thosetalesofunexpected · 13/01/2021 23:34

Very Weird Case/US Laws are aren't they
Does not make sense

I agree with you Op Totally

First time I have heard about this😕

LimitIsUp · 13/01/2021 23:34

@BooFuckingHoo2

I've reported this thread to ask HQ to check for sock puppetry. Perhaps there isn't any going on, but for the sake of my own peace of mind I would prefer to believe that there is only one avenging harpy with multiple user names, rather than there are actually lots of people, who walk among us, who think this is okay

Can you really not stomach that your opinion might be in the minority?

No, I really can't on this one occasion, I find the other perspective so unpalatable
Wtfdidwedo · 13/01/2021 23:35

@TheLisbonSisters

I don't agree with this but would also be interested to know if they have this law in Washington and if so whether the Capitol building invaders will be charged with murder and if not why not.
lawandcrime.com/legal-analysis/could-the-capitol-rioters-really-be-charged-with-felony-murder-for-death-of-ashli-babbit/ wtop.com/dc/2021/01/prosecutors-weigh-heavy-hammer-felony-murder-for-rioters-in-capitol-officers-death/amp/ Bit more on it here but felony murder is only committed when a death happens during the course of a crime off a specific list. Incitement/rioting aren't on the list so if they don't get charged that would be why.
chomalungma · 13/01/2021 23:37

If they were going for a walk no I wouldn’t be happy. If they were going out to commit a robbery I’d see the logic in them being held responsible yes

So if someone was a part of that gang, let down by the system, failed by the system, disruptive childhood etc and wanted to belong - and this was a way to belong - would you still be happy for them to be charged with murder even if they did not themselves do anything?

SchrodingersImmigrant · 13/01/2021 23:37

@chomalungma

Imagine when you were a teenager and a friend of yours was showing off in their car, and you were part of that, just because it was what you did, maybe you were easily led.....

And then the driver, who you had little control over, but who had influence over you, ran someone over due to their behaviour.

Do you deserve to go to jail for that death?

That's very much different to joining them breaking into a house...
ElizaLaLa · 13/01/2021 23:37

Yet if it was 'the system' that led to such events, life events etc - they are not put on trial and they are not sentenced.

Everyone has free will, irregardless of their upbringing.

Someone commits a crime. They end up dead. Who is responsible for that death?

They are. If they weren't there committing that crime, they wouldn't have ended up dead.

NewjobOldme · 13/01/2021 23:40

@chomalungma

Imagine when you were a teenager and a friend of yours was showing off in their car, and you were part of that, just because it was what you did, maybe you were easily led.....

And then the driver, who you had little control over, but who had influence over you, ran someone over due to their behaviour.

Do you deserve to go to jail for that death?

I think the issue of intent is the difference here. Showing off which leads to a moment of dangerous driving is very different to setting out to break into someone's house. At the very least they intended to steal, who knows what else could have happened in the course of the crime.
MichelleScarn · 13/01/2021 23:41

Right so if you are woken up by people smashing into your house in the night now you need to say 'ok chaps what are you after? Electrical goods?, oh crack on?' and just let people do whatever they want?

chomalungma · 13/01/2021 23:41

That's very much different to joining them breaking into a house

Same idea though. Some people have less control over their actions, especially in certain groups, than others do.

We have something a bit similar in this country - people have been charged with manslaughter even though they did not do the stabbing or shooting but were part of a group that were there at the time.

But this case is on another level.

I have no sympathy for burglars. But I struggle to find that someone can be charged with murder when they did not fire the gun.

BooFuckingHoo2 · 13/01/2021 23:41

So if someone was a part of that gang, let down by the system, failed by the system, disruptive childhood etc and wanted to belong - and this was a way to belong - would you still be happy for them to be charged with murder even if they did not themselves do anything?

But they did “do something” they committed a felony crime, as a result of which someone died Confused

OuiOuiKitty · 13/01/2021 23:41

I don't think worrying your tv will get stolen covers it really.
If 4 people of unknown age, possibly armed broke into your house it wouldn't be your Tv you are worrying about.

He can't have bee that worried or he wouldn't have actively sought them out as he did. If I heard someone break into my house I certainly wouldn't be going out to meet them.

chomalungma · 13/01/2021 23:42

But they did “do something” they committed a felony crime, as a result of which someone died

The crime was burglary.

Not murder.

OuiOuiKitty · 13/01/2021 23:42

@MichelleScarn

Right so if you are woken up by people smashing into your house in the night now you need to say 'ok chaps what are you after? Electrical goods?, oh crack on?' and just let people do whatever they want?
No. You stay where you are and you call the police. Why would you go out to them Confused
ElizaLaLa · 13/01/2021 23:43

Same idea though. Some people have less control over their actions, especially in certain groups, than others do.

Then those people need to wo/man up and take responsibility for their own actions and what they are part of.

NewjobOldme · 13/01/2021 23:43

My house was burgled and ransacked, luckily when no one was home.
I was the one who discovered it. It's a horrible, unnerving feeling to have your home, your place of safety, violated.
I can't even imagine the level of fear involved to be present when 4 people break in.