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Impeachment of Trump and Inauguration of Biden (#120)

999 replies

Roussette · 13/01/2021 07:40

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4130520-On-our-way-to-Bidens-Inauguration-Trump-119?watched=1&msgid=103593277#103593277

So fast moving. Here we go again....

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
redcandlelight · 15/01/2021 11:36

one problem certainly is/was that the stbx president used twitter as his main communication channel.

PerkingFaintly · 15/01/2021 11:39

In October, Twitter started removing tweets which wished harm on people... but only because now it was Trump being wished ill. They'd been merrily allowing threatening tweets for years before that.

Backlash as Twitter says posts wishing harm on Trump violate social network’s rules
New policy on threatening behaviour sparks incredulity among those who have faced targeted abuse for years
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-coronavirus-news-twitter-death-threats-new-rules-abuse-b755651.html

Twitter has also been favouring Trump for years, giving him a pass for things they'd delete from other people. Now they've stopped doing that.

There's a big discussion to be had about the fact that Twitter has been the arbiter of all this social discourse.

But however much people try to argue otherwise, it's very clearly not a case of mere censorship based on personal political preference, as Navalny claims. Navalny and anyone else claiming this will have to explain why Twitter didn't ban Trump before, given Trump's politics haven't changed.

What has changed is Trump's incitement to violence becoming a greater threat.

BTW, Navalny is quite right that any oppressor around the world who wants to censor anyone, for any reason, will point to Trump being thrown off Twitter, even when the cases are very different.

The same undemocratic, authoritarian regimes are gleefully pointing right now to Trumpies trying to overthrow the legitimate results of a free and fair election and the legally peaceful transfer of power, and saying, "See, even the US doesn't really mean it about democracy, and the President of the US is the one egging them on. Oh, and Twitter has been enabling him while banning other people for discussing topics Twitter doesn't like."

So if you want to worry about oppressive regimes pointing to behaviour around Trump as their role model, you've got plenty to worry about that doesn't begin and end with a Twitter-ban.

Lweji · 15/01/2021 11:44

[quote DuncinToffee]Looting the White House is trending on twitter

Jim Acosta @Acosta
More stuff (appears to be Abe Lincoln bust) leaving the West Wing this afternoon

twitter.com/Acosta/status/1349810898454638592?s=19[/quote]
That´s not how loaned items are returned to the Smithsonian, I'm sure! Shock

borntobequiet · 15/01/2021 11:47

Maybe a responsible use of social media clause should be inserted into every Presidential oath, and the equivalent for every head of state. Even if it was just to solemnly swear never to put caps lock on.
I mean, if I were to attempt to incite bad behaviour among my learners, on Twitter, I’d soon be out of a job. Why should it be different for POTUS?

ListeningQuietly · 15/01/2021 11:48

news.sky.com/story/thousands-on-no-fly-lists-ahead-of-bidens-inauguration-as-airlines-ban-guns-from-luggage-12188037

Why is it newsworthy that people should NOT be flying into DC carrying guns Hmm

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2021 11:49

One of the fears atm is that certain companies have more wealth than nation states which means they can effectively dictate rules outside the law.

The issue with censorship is therefore in many respects the same for private companies as it is in terms of it in being in state hands if there is no way to hold that power to account.

The biggest issue with 'twitter law' as it stands is the arbitrary nation of it. Trump had a different set of standards applied to him than others. There is a complete lack of consistency.

There is no transparency over how decisions are made. There is no proper right of reply or a fair appeals system.

The law in the uk is often not being applied - we are subject to the laws as they are in the US and even then thats not necessarily being applied correctly.

There have been concerns that the staff doing this are not well protected from the harms they are trying to stop (PTSD is problematic), there is the ability for staff to act maliciously if they want to users with views they dislike or apply their own ideological views rather than properly censor where they should (examples of clear racism, violence or antisemitism allowed to stand beyond all reasonable justification).

Trump was banned after years of behaviour which by twitters own admission broke their rules. And other leaders who have dubious conduct on the platform have been allowed to stay because?? Because they come from countries that twitter dont really have any interest in terms of their politics.

It gives twitter the power not just to censor but to interfere internationally in politics elsewhere or to enable terrorism / violence elsewhere.

Thats worse than a nation state even an imperialist one in many respect because of its sheer reach.

Theres a huge argument here about what freedom of speech and national / International security meet....

In the uk, we have the principle of free speech however there are limits to this where it involves harm to others in some form (physical, mental and in terms of damage to reputation) or security threats.

The US is different. But there are certainly questions from an European point of view about this and why us freedom of speech offers a clear and present danger to the rest of the world in various ways.

Jason118 · 15/01/2021 11:58

Faber and Faber not publishing my magnum opus "Skidmarks of the stars - an illustrated discovery" is not censorship. Just a business decision. And possibly literary criticism.
@DGRossetti I'd read it, is it on Amazon? Grin

DGRossetti · 15/01/2021 12:04

Maybe a responsible use of social media clause should be inserted into every Presidential oath, and the equivalent for every head of state.

I'm sure Her Majesty would be beyond reproach on Twitter.

DuncinToffee · 15/01/2021 12:05

Lweji That´s not how loaned items are returned to the Smithsonian, I'm sure! shock

Maybe they came from the souvenir shop

terrywynne · 15/01/2021 12:15

There have been concerns that the staff doing this are not well protected from the harms they are trying to stop (PTSD is problematic), there is the ability for staff to act maliciously if they want to users with views they dislike or apply their own ideological views rather than properly censor where they should (examples of clear racism, violence or antisemitism allowed to stand beyond all reasonable justification).

I have been wondering how much the individual staff thing is relevant here. I know nothing about Twitter's structure but I assume they have more than one employee... So not only is there the issue about the high level policies the companies have and the actions taken by the CEO etc but how an individual implements that policy on the ground. I am sure we have all had instances where the person you get through to at the company drives the outcome you get. Do they have particular staff to deal with high profile/controversial figures? What is the recruitment/promotion to those roles like if they exist?

DuncinToffee · 15/01/2021 12:16

Stripped of online megaphones and watching their backs, far-right extremists plan to steer clear of Inauguration Day protests

Lets hope so lionheart

DGRossetti · 15/01/2021 12:16

[quote lionheart]eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2021/01/14/far-right-extremists-stay-away-armed-protests-inauguration/4159536001/[/quote]
Looks like the FBI have managed to get their claws into a few members to do the heavy lifting.

As a few commentators noted ... from they way these people squealed over not being able to fly, they were probably queuing up to sell their mates out to avoid any jail time.

Roussette · 15/01/2021 12:20

Twitter has also been favouring Trump for years, giving him a pass for things they'd delete from other people. Now they've stopped doing that

^^ This.

People have had temporary bans on Twitter for far far less than a lot of Trumpy tweets.
Usually for calling someone an arsehole or equivalent. Yet his tweets have stood until now.

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Shrillharridan · 15/01/2021 12:27

I'm assuming that giving a platform to those proposing armed insurection was a step too far even for twitter and Facebook.

Shrillharridan · 15/01/2021 12:28

Dorsey and Zuckerberg must be shitting themselves

merrymouse · 15/01/2021 12:30

A big problem with leaving regulation to twitter is that they aren't a neutral judge.

They want controversial content on their platform because it drives engagement.

Shrillharridan · 15/01/2021 12:36

Absolutely

Roussette · 15/01/2021 12:39

OK.... calling all you lovely posters... who's up for starting a new thread in about 80 posts time?

I will do it if no one else does (don't want to lose any of you as there's been great discussion on here)

Perhaps we need a good thread title (not my forté) whilst adding Number 121 to it!

Can't believe how quickly we are getting through these threads at the moment!

OP posts:
Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 15/01/2021 12:40

I'mpeachy, says Georgia - Trump notsomuch.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 15/01/2021 12:40

The FBI don't have to provide a no-fly list anyway, if the airlines decide not to allow guns in passenger compartments (which isn't a right for passengers, because of cabin pressure; I think they are allowed in the hold in most places?) and to require mask-wearing (as they are fully entitled to do so long as it is clearly stated at the time you buy your ticket that this will be enforced).

Last I heard, the FBI hadn't yet issued any no-fly orders over this little local riot; has that changed? I know some congressman was wittering about it, but it wasn't true at that point.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 15/01/2021 12:43

Roussette
People have had temporary bans on Twitter for far far less than a lot of Trumpy tweets.
Usually for calling someone an arsehole or equivalent. Yet his tweets have stood until now.

Ordinary people get banned from Twitter at the drop of a pronoun.

Yohoheaveho · 15/01/2021 12:48

@redcandlelight

one problem certainly is/was that the stbx president used twitter as his main communication channel.
Yes I'm not defending Twitter's failure to moderate his communication but trump's practice of deliberately breaking norms puts others in difficult positions. He does it because he knows he can work things to his advantage, because the other party is put on the back foot and will often choose a position whose consequences they have not been able to calculate and were not expecting to deal with. basically it's a way of creating chaos which he can exploit, that his modus operandi, that's what he's comfortable with
PatriciaHolm · 15/01/2021 13:08

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom

I'mpeachy, says Georgia - Trump notsomuch.
;-)
Impeachment of Trump and Inauguration of Biden (#120)
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