Impeachment of Trump and Inauguration of Biden (#120)

[Roussette]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4130520-On-our-way-to-Bidens-Inauguration-Trump-119?watched=1&msgid=103593277#103593277

So fast moving. Here we go again....

One of the lowering realisations I have had in recent years (in part because of these threads) is that for the most part politicians aren't somehow 'better' people dedicated to the nation's interests. Self-interested, greedy, sexist, cruel etc people can and do get elected and don't have a magical personality transplant.

I am not entirely convinced there has been a huge change though. 18th/19th century politicians might have spoken more of 'duty' and had a stronger sense of public service, but ultimately they had a very paternalistic outlook and considered it was their duty to govern because they were the 'natural' leaders. And it is pretty evident that they governed in a way that was self interested and that favoured a narrow social elite, the political class and banking/mercantile class.

I think we have lost a sense of 'honour' in the form of respecting the institutions of government and being prepared to work with your political opponents (so greater polarisation). But on the whole I think I have just become more cynical about politicians in general. And I can see why research type groups are saying people are increasingly disillusioned with the political system.

[quote Sleipnirthewonderhorse]A reminder of some of trump's greatest hits.
twitter.com/jules_su/status/1348879180658860032[/quote]
He should release a DVD of all his gaffs and outtakes. He could call it something snappy that will appeal to his core support like "It'll Be All White On The Night".

Actually, one DVD would not be enough. It would be a box set.

One of the lowering realisations I have had in recent years (in part because of these threads) is that for the most part politicians aren't somehow 'better' people dedicated to the nation's interests. Self-interested, greedy, sexist, cruel etc people can and do get elected and don't have a magical personality transplant.

Billy Connolly once said “The desire to be a politician should bar you for life from ever becoming one.”

He wasn't far off the mark.

Apparently Trump has told his people not to pay Guiliani, and to stop taking his calls..... given his previous in not paying his bills, it's not entirely surprising.

Presumably this basically means no-one will be prepared to defend him now, surely? Who is going to take the risk?

@PatriciaHolm

Apparently Trump has told his people not to pay Guiliani, and to stop taking his calls..... given his previous in not paying his bills, it's not entirely surprising.

Presumably this basically means no-one will be prepared to defend him now, surely? Who is going to take the risk?

Hardly surprising if true. Trump has demonstrated time and time again that he expects absolute loyalty and offers none whatsoever in return. Disagree with him or fail to deliver on his demands just once and it's bye bye. I've lost count of how many people he has not only fired but tried to destroy for as little as one transgression. How people continue to offer him loyalty, knowing that they are never more than one step away from being thrown under the bus, baffles me.

Scary footage from the Telegraph
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/14/video-exclusive-death-remedy-capitol-rioter-told-minutes-attack/

Apparently Trump has told his people not to pay Guiliani, and to stop taking his calls..... given his previous in not paying his bills, it's not entirely surprising.

If Giuliani couldn't predict that, he's an idiot - but he might have taken the risk on the basis that he thought the publicity was worth it. If so, it's backfired fairly spectacularly; I rather doubt that anyone, event the rabid Trump supporters, will be that keen on instructing him in future.

It'll be interesting to see what Jenna Ellis does. She has a track record for U turns: at one point she said Trump was an idiot, but became an ardent supporter when he took her on to his legal team. I suspect her enthusiasm will diminish if or when he also stops paying her.

@terrywynne

One of the lowering realisations I have had in recent years (in part because of these threads) is that for the most part politicians aren't somehow 'better' people dedicated to the nation's interests. Self-interested, greedy, sexist, cruel etc people can and do get elected and don't have a magical personality transplant.

I am not entirely convinced there has been a huge change though. 18th/19th century politicians might have spoken more of 'duty' and had a stronger sense of public service, but ultimately they had a very paternalistic outlook and considered it was their duty to govern because they were the 'natural' leaders. And it is pretty evident that they governed in a way that was self interested and that favoured a narrow social elite, the political class and banking/mercantile class.

I think we have lost a sense of 'honour' in the form of respecting the institutions of government and being prepared to work with your political opponents (so greater polarisation). But on the whole I think I have just become more cynical about politicians in general. And I can see why research type groups are saying people are increasingly disillusioned with the political system.

Probably a huge topic for another thread but I think its far beyond politicians, so many things feel positively feudal and mediaeval, with overlord syndrome abounding these days. (Fear of plague doesnt help, granted). The increasing divisions in wealth and desperate poverty in the richest countries on earth, where money buys power is marked. The healthcare situation in the US is nothing short of terrifying. Its all a pretty bad advert for capitalism and the decadent West. I say this as the only good that might come out of the US troubles and fundamental divisions being illustrated and played out in such sharp relief is that the UK, home of the NHS and welfare state, might not continue to go down the same path. I am not a foaming at the mouth socialist but would be relieved at a change in government and their apparent values over here. Appreciate this is a bit of a superficial attempt at PPE but its what I am feeling.

What's Giuliani done to piss Trump off. Have I missed something. Or did he agree to payment on results. With Donnie going not being the result that was talked about ?

Giuliani is actually a good candidate for the "do you believe your own bullshit" test I suggested upthread. He spouted a load of bollocks outside court, where he wasn't subject to censure for lying. But the second he was in peril, the tune changes. Suggesting he did not believe a word he was saying.

@TooTrueToBeGood

One of the lowering realisations I have had in recent years (in part because of these threads) is that for the most part politicians aren't somehow 'better' people dedicated to the nation's interests. Self-interested, greedy, sexist, cruel etc people can and do get elected and don't have a magical personality transplant.

Billy Connolly once said “The desire to be a politician should bar you for life from ever becoming one.”

He wasn't far off the mark.

Billy Connolly may well have borrowed from Douglas Adams on that one:

“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.

To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”

― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

@DGRossetti

What's Giuliani done to piss Trump off. Have I missed something. Or did he agree to payment on results. With Donnie going not being the result that was talked about ?

Giuliani is actually a good candidate for the "do you believe your own bullshit" test I suggested upthread. He spouted a load of bollocks outside court, where he wasn't subject to censure for lying. But the second he was in peril, the tune changes. Suggesting he did not believe a word he was saying.

Not win any of the entirely spurious Overturn the Vote cases, essentially. ToddlerTrump is in tantrum mode where blame must lie at someone else's feet, and he doesn't like paying for anything anyway.

Rest in peace Douglas Adams, so prescient!

I know I’ve said this before on this and other threads. But I was brought up in religion and I know that ostensibly intelligent, sensible and well educated people can be persuaded to believe in anything, however implausible, counter-factual and frankly ridiculous, to venerate those who are clearly grandiose, venal and destructive and to inflict vile punishment and torture on those who have the temerity to disagree with them at the drop of a hat. Luckily there are aspects of most religion that promote good behaviour, but you only have to look at current discussions of the Irish mother and baby homes to see the other side of it.
Nothing people will believe in or do surprises me.

Surely Giuliani has been advising Trump on a " No Win, No Fee" basis?

@PatriciaHolm

Apparently Trump has told his people not to pay Guiliani, and to stop taking his calls..... given his previous in not paying his bills, it's not entirely surprising.

Presumably this basically means no-one will be prepared to defend him now, surely? Who is going to take the risk?

Fab.

We won't have to worry about the lack of impeachment conviction then. You can run for president from a jail cell.

*can't

Maybe some proud boys will offer to be his lawyer, I'm sure that would be very interesting🤭
There's a whole mob of people who are willing to do his bidding and he does 'love the poorly educated' so... Why does he not turn to his supporters for help?
Of course we know that he despises each and every one of these hapless eejits and would not piss on them if they were on fire, yet still they slavishly follow him

I thought the tech wars were all about hacking and weaponised information but communication is also key.

www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/01/telegram-nazi-ban/?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=naytev&utm_medium=social

Wherrsmaclickypen for me it is the growth of foodbanks, the reliance on charities to meet basic needs, and the insistence that we should laud private individuals/companies for donating money and essential supplies to the NHS that makes me feel like I am living under 19th century paternalism (which to be far is what a lot of Conservatives would like!) or medieval alms giving/charity establishment. Except that in both those instances charity came with the moral judgement of individual founders as to who was deserving/hardworking enough to be helped...

@borntobequiet

I know I’ve said this before on this and other threads. But I was brought up in religion and I know that ostensibly intelligent, sensible and well educated people can be persuaded to believe in anything, however implausible, counter-factual and frankly ridiculous, to venerate those who are clearly grandiose, venal and destructive and to inflict vile punishment and torture on those who have the temerity to disagree with them at the drop of a hat. Luckily there are aspects of most religion that promote good behaviour, but you only have to look at current discussions of the Irish mother and baby homes to see the other side of it. Nothing people will believe in or do surprises me.

It is pretty depressing what some people are prepared to do while being utterly convinced that their actions are 'good' or 'right'.

Well all this impeachment is going to do is ovedshaw Biden first few weeks if not months (depending on how long it drags out) with it being about Trump.

Then you'll always have the endless threads and posts on social media about Trump continuing 🙄 just giving him more 'airtime'

Best thing they should of done is just let him leave as its only a matter of days and concentrate on rolling out their promises and getting the covid crisis under control, people are dying and their focus will be on Trump what a great way to start your presidential term.

I knownmy USA friends are angry about this, they want the covid virus under control, vaccines to be rolled out and all they are seeing is infighting that is going to take time away from dealing with the real issues

'This cannot go unaswered.'

www.rawstory.com/trump-sedition-2649936022/

@borntobequiet

I know I’ve said this before on this and other threads. But I was brought up in religion and I know that ostensibly intelligent, sensible and well educated people can be persuaded to believe in anything, however implausible, counter-factual and frankly ridiculous, to venerate those who are clearly grandiose, venal and destructive and to inflict vile punishment and torture on those who have the temerity to disagree with them at the drop of a hat. Luckily there are aspects of most religion that promote good behaviour, but you only have to look at current discussions of the Irish mother and baby homes to see the other side of it. Nothing people will believe in or do surprises me.

Me too, @borntobequiet, and I've long viewed some of the church people of my childhood to be paranoid, delusional, religiously grandiose whack-jobs who occasionally managed to parrot a couple of the gentler Beatitudes.

cycling that's called appeasement. It isn't a good thing. Trump should not escape the consequences of his actions, and nor should his followers, because to do so is to legitimise them.