Impeachment of Trump and Inauguration of Biden (#120)

[Roussette]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4130520-On-our-way-to-Bidens-Inauguration-Trump-119?watched=1&msgid=103593277#103593277

So fast moving. Here we go again....

Anyone seen this article? www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/13/us-police-use-of-force-protests-black-lives-matter-far-right

I wish I could be surprised, but I'm really not.

@DGRossetti

The whole impeachment process was predicated upon honourable men (I use that word deliberately).

However it's been corrupted into an obscene sort of groupwank, where most people who vote do so in the knowledge that they want to commit similar crimes in future without being punished as well. Effectively they have become judges in their own cases.

But as long as this all happens in the open - reported on daily by a free press - and people are still happy to vote Tory or Republican or Labour or Democrat, you ain't fixing nothing with words.

We return to revolution being not only inevitable. But necessary.

Perhaps we've got this wrong, and last week should have gone further ?

You think lynching people who do believe in democracy and the constitution would have solved the problem?

If you are proposing revolution to 'fix' the problem it relies on the mob lynching the 'right group'.

I know there is an argument for all politicians being corrupt here, but if the alternative is a dictatorship thats not really solving the underlying issue of politicians being liars and crooks. Its just rewarding the one who was the most successful at being a dishonest man.

Thats not exactly making consequences for corruption. Thats the ultimate reward.

The pitchforks used by a mob of unthinking thickos who are useful tools to Trump and the Republicans.

The mob is almost always mad of this type of rabble unfortunately. The thinking are usually the first on the hitlist.

You think lynching people who do believe in democracy and the constitution would have solved the problem?

Yes. That is exactly what I said

Dgr thats how i read it.

Olympian charged in connection to the 6th. 2 time medalist at that (swimmer sorry didnt catch name)

I read it as they didn't quite get the chance to get enough rope to hang themselves with figuratively speaking. There is wiggle room, and had things got more out of control thank goodness they didnt then there would be less scope for wiggling out of anything. It would be clear, simple and undeniable.

@RedToothBrush

Dgr thats how i read it.

I was merely speculating on Jeffersons views that revolutions are periodic and unavoidable, along with one of the reasons that might be.

I have a deep scepticism that much really changes after any revolution. In fact there is a counter argument (Mr. Jefferson) that revolutions hinder the progress of the human question by allowing those in power afterwards to claim they have total legitimacy precisely because they won the revolution.

Thing is, the Capitol mob include a number of people, mostly male, who are clearly mentally unwell. I just can't theorise them as revolutionaries fitting into some sort of political theoretical landscape or phenomenology of capitalism, and even the pomos haven't tried it (yet).

The Capitol mob are just ... delusional. And impossible to reason with, impossible to negotiate with. All you have left to deal with them are the rules, and especially the rule of law.

I think a lot of checks and balances rely on people feeling ashamed, or being shunned by society. Once somebody who does not feel shame discovers they won't be shunned, they can do whatever they like.

Maybe the Democrat/liberal narrative over the years of "you're just a bunch of dumb rubes living in flyover country" has largely assisted Trump in building his base. Under Dubya, they were the cannon fodder for neo-con wars. Under Obama their jobs were relocated to China. Most of them were Democrat voters once upon a time.

Thing is, the Capitol mob include a number of people, mostly male, who are clearly mentally unwell.

Not that mentally unwell though. They managed to travel, arrange to meet, and navigate and negotiate a fast moving and complex situation with little to no injury to themselves.

Moving completely to the next page, I'd be curious to know if there has been any research into any way to test a persons "sincerely held beliefs" to separate the real looney tunes from the fellow passengers.

(I know it's an odd cite, but the Frankie Howerd character from "Carry on Nurse" springs to mind. Someone who made a living from telling people they didn't need hospitals right up until they believed they were ill and all of a sudden couldn't get enough modern medicine ....)

Or Boris Johnson agitating for an argument he had no truck with ...

I think it’s dangerous to assume these people are mentally ill. It’s more likely that they get their news entirely from right wing sources and believe that DT is the saviour of the masses. And they are surrounded by people who think the same way.

I liken it to the Trans arguments I’ve had with my teenagers. They parrot off lies and untruths that are easily proven wrong but believe they are in the right and any proof is either wrong or twisted. And I’m sure they say the same about me/the other side.

@HillsBesideTheSea

Olympian charged in connection to the 6th. 2 time medalist at that (swimmer sorry didnt catch name)

CNN reported yesterday that another 7 arrests were made, including a serving police officer from Texas.

I'm still curious as to what Trump really meant when he spoke of 'our movement' post 1/6.

What does he think this 'movement' is? Or is it left deliberately vague, so it can be whatever a follower wants (needs) it to be?

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/14/mike-pompeo-lashes-out-reign-ends

@SunniCameHomeWithAVengeance

I wonder where Kayleigh Mcenany is in all of this. If I recall correctly the last time she graced us she looked teary and unsure. Has she been fired?

Also I note that in Trumps video he said Covid 19 and not one of his usual China Virus slurs.

She is cited in press as definitely out of favour, and as part of Trump's media team, pretty toxic now - not many organisations will hire the colluders. But with a fair few WH staffers with nowhere to go, one can reasonably expect more strategic noises and confessionals in the days to come, what with a potential trial situation on the horizon. If they have any sense though all these 'guilty by association' guys be in hiding and practicing their chess skills.

I read something about Forbes 'blacklisting' former Trump staffers? I'll try and find it.

@JamieLeesCurtains

I read something about Forbes 'blacklisting' former Trump staffers? I'll try and find it.

Given the Forbes paywall, here's a rehash www.thewrap.com/forbes-editor-warns-companies-not-to-hire-mcenany-kellyanne-conway-and-other-trump-fabulists/

@JamieLeesCurtains

I read something about Forbes 'blacklisting' former Trump staffers? I'll try and find it.

It's in www.businessinsider.com

"Forbes editor warns companies that might hire Trump press secretaries: Magazine will assume everything they say is a lie"

The list includes "Sean Spicer, Kayleigh McEnany, and Kellyanne Conway."

I think those NDAs will come under the spotlight again.

Thanks, @Wherrsmaclickypen, you beat me to it!

CNN article about some of the people arrested

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/13/politics/notable-arrests-capitol

This thread is worth reading... Seth Abramson talking about Trump and what he said and did last Wednesday. It's a 'deep dive into incitement to insurrection'

twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1347908845281095680

How any of the GOP can deny his culpability is beyond me.

A reminder of some of trump's greatest hits.
twitter.com/jules_su/status/1348879180658860032

Thanks for that Seth Abramson link, @Roussette. My fear is that the GOP will just continue to deny, deny, deny. Self-interested cowards - though I still fail to see what they think Trump can do to them after 20th January?