Travelling for Work

[SittingHereThinking1]

Here’s a question from a work colleague. Her friend (different company) has been asked to travel for work. Could be classed as essential travel, so all legal and legit. It would involve driving to the airport and getting on a nine hour flight with Virgin (all passengers PCR tested, cabin air recycled every 2-3 minutes), all passengers masked. Business class, so fewer surrounding passengers. Two weeks immediate isolation on arrival, so no chance of passing it on at the other end. The destination has basically no Covid at all. She would be staying there for a month.

She has refused, and she is outraged that the company has asked her to travel, saying it is too high risk. She is saying that she is too worried of catching it and spreading it to go.

I think she hasn’t done her calculations correctly. She lives in London, is part of a support bubble with two people (who have also met other people and been out shopping etc as per the legal guidelines) and has met friends outside for walks (all within the law of course). Basically she has been and will continue to interact with people on a daily basis who have a 1 in 20 chance of being infected. For 30 days, when 29 of those could be zero risk.

What I have issue with is her estimation of risk. Surely over a month in London there is statistically a much greater chance of catching the virus, vs 11 hours of travel (two in the airport and 9 surrounded by PCR negative passengers wearing masks in the plane.) She’s vastly more likely to catch it and pass it on in a London supermarket. AIBU in thinking her estimation of risk is just factually incorrect, and she would be at much lower risk over time of catching and spreading it if she went?

I think what you're saying is essentially correct.

However, depending on her destination she might be thinking that 'hardly any covid there' is incorrect- if the govt can't be relied to publish accurate numbers etc or if she belongs to a class of people who are being persecuted under the guise of covid. Or if in fact her 2 week quarantine is of the 'jail is better' variety or rather more relaxed, will have all factored into her decision and calculations of risk.

@Dalooah thank you for your response. The numbers are reliable. Very tiny island with Covid numbers in the single digits. She has no issue with the two week isolation. Very nice place to be, accommodation all fine. Strict quarantine though, but she would be better off than the U.K. for sure (this isn’t her concern.) Her outrage is an ethical one- “how dare they ask me to travel internationally during a pandemic” type... And worry about having a higher risk of catching and spreading it everything else is irrelevant/ even to her. I just think she has her calculations wrong.

Is her outrage based on thinking it’s irresponsible to fly anywhere during a pandemic, thinking what if she takes Covid to this island (I believe a cleaner in a quarantine hotel in Australia recently caught it?) etc.
Or is it about her own safety?

She clearly doesn't want to go and is using the Covid as a get out.

It’s the unknown that may bother her

The flight has to land elsewhere
She has to stay much longer in this country due to weather for example
There an outbreak in the country and she wants to get gone swiftly but can’t

So many variables that currently aren’t in her life

And isolating in another country, alone.
Bloody awful

And presumably this country isn’t even set up file isolating individuals in terms of support for food delivery and if she fell sick (Non covid) and needed help

What can't be worked on from here?

Can't believe it's viable to pay someone to stay in a hotel room for 2 weeks before you expect work out of them

I think it sounds shit for her - staying in a hotel room for 2 weeks would be AWFUL - literally staring at a pool/beach you're not allowed to visit

Is there decent healthcare on the island? That would be my only concern, should she become unwell. PCR tests aren't particularly reliable.

(I'd be packing my bags the minute they asked. Anything to have a month away from here at the moment!)

I'll Go!

I also wouldn't do it because of the risk of getting sick somewhere with a shoddy health service (islands usually have dreadful facilities and no intensive care)

I think going is a compromise to her health that's quite different from London

Hmmm. I don’t agree tbh. I’m not someone who won’t go on a plane either I would go tomorrow if I could.

I think it’s not just the planes infact I think it’s the airports that you could pick something up!

It’s up to your friend though OP if she doesn’t want to leave her be!

[quote SittingHereThinking1]@Dalooah thank you for your response. The numbers are reliable. Very tiny island with Covid numbers in the single digits. She has no issue with the two week isolation. Very nice place to be, accommodation all fine. Strict quarantine though, but she would be better off than the U.K. for sure (this isn’t her concern.) Her outrage is an ethical one- “how dare they ask me to travel internationally during a pandemic” type... And worry about having a higher risk of catching and spreading it everything else is irrelevant/ even to her. I just think she has her calculations wrong.[/quote]
I'm now very sceptical of places claiming low numbers. I caught covid on an island claiming to have less than 50 cases on the whole island, and most of those in the capital which I didn't visit.

I'd be wary... No control of bubble... Things I'd be concerned about:
-Healthcare if get sick
-isolating in foreign country.
-PCR test isn't great for catching all positive cases... Is it 49% accurate?
-can't keep mask on for 9 hours.. Will presumably be fed?... So with PCR test accuracy not great...

I am very chilled out about everything really, but I don't think anyone should be travelling anywhere unnecessarily at the moment. Morally speaking I guess. Does she really need to travel for whatever it is? I also wouldn't want to be a 9 hour flight from home right now for a month.

Healthcare when sick is a good point. Isolation is not depressing in this instance- can’t clarify more than that, but it’s not believe me!
None of these issues are what she is upset about though. She says it is MORE risky to travel and be somewhere safer for a month (I do think the figures are accurate) than to stay in the U.K. for the same time. That is what is unreasonable. I don’t question whether she wants to go etc. That is a personal decision and not the question I want to ask. What I want to ask is about statistical risk. And surely with the NHS as overrun as they say it is and ambulance waiting times in London being in crisis, any healthcare option is safer than here right now!!

I would absolutely hate to have to go into an airport right now. She's safer staying at home like we're all meant to be doing.

@LaceyBetty So the question isn’t about whether she should, it’s about her grounds for refusal of you see what I mean (reasonable or otherwise.) Whether to travel or not is anybody’s choice. Although personally unrelated to this I actually feel travel with full isolation at the other end is not irresponsible whatever the reason. The London infection rate is 1 in 20. If you’re going to catch and spread it anywhere it’s here, surely

@Chel098 I don’t know her. She’s someone a friend vaguely knows from work. No one is communicating with her in any way. I just think she’s being illogical in her reasoning

@LaceyBetty ok but an airport (which is really just a big building. On a par with a supermarket layout wise. Probably quieter at the moment to be honest and much easier to socially distance ). I think a lot of reactions to this - including hers- are emotional and not thinking logically through this would entail. Two hours of socially distant contact Versus a month of being here where you could catch it on any street corner.

@happytoday73 yes but what I’m saying is that 9 hours of mitigated contact time in the airplane plus 2 hours in an airport all on one day vs 30 days of being in contact with people who have a very high chance of being infected in every supermarket, park stroll and even at home through her support bubble. I’m like even if you have a remotely legit legal excuse to go, do it. But obvs I don’t know her so it’s just theoretical to me.

The amount of risk I’m prepared to take for the benefit of my employer is different to the amount of risk I’m prepared to take for my own well-being. Obviously there’s at point at which the risk of losing my job outweighs everything else.

But people in general are extremely bad at assessing risk especially in complex scenarios like we’re all facing at the moment.

It’s a statistical risk issue I’m asking about. Not “should she go”

@Brighterthansunflowers but what I’m saying is OVER TIME the risk to herself (and to others) is greater staying in london for a month, than 11 hours of travel

I think you’re her boss. Just saying.

@Whatisthis543 yeah but no. Just bored of homeschooling my kids and fancied a mumsnet debate