To think closing nurseries would be disastrous?

[Purgatory2021]

I'm seeing it discussed left right and centre, my post was prompted by television this morning.

For many reasons (none selfish) I think it would be disastrous, but the one that stands out to me the most is people's ability to work.

I'm sure there will be plenty of nurses/HCP's/important key workers who rely on nursery to be able to do their jobs.

Not everybody has family that can step in.

Older primary aged children and secondary age children can fend for themselves to a degree if push came to shove, but you can't do the same with toddlers and babies.

@ThePurpleGirl it was part of his BBC video call this morning. That's a simplistic view of it though. He was asked if nurseries should close, his view was that at the minute no, their are wider implications and it's not an area where spread is high, we are better off following the current regulations than introducing new ones. However, if possible, you should keep your child at home.

I personally took that as- if you are a SAHP, and it's for a break, or if you have the option of being furloughed, then do it and stay at home. Don't beat yourself up if you need to use it for work.

@IndecentFeminist

Is there any evidence of nurseries contributing to the ongoing spread in any notable fashion?

None that I have seen. I would imagine there's a lot more places where spread is higher which could be closed first.

Shut places of worship first, say people that can work at home have to work at home, request people only put their children in nursery when they are working and if they have to.

All of these replies and no one is showing the least bit of concern for us nursery staff.

@Ilovegreentomatoes

All of these replies and no one is showing the least bit of concern for us nursery staff.

Of course people care and support their children's nursery staff. Half the reason I don't think nurseries should close is so these staff have a job to come back to. If nurseries shut their doors an incredibly high proportion of their staff will have no job as it won't be financially viable for many to reopen again.

I go the impression from the Whitty interview this morning that nurseries wouldn't be closed. He said he recognised the importance of nurseries to working parents and the need to keep the economy going. However did reiterate that any decisions would come from the ministers and not from him.

I thought his interview was good this morning. He didn't want to get into the issue with social bubbles as that one is for the Government to deal with and not him.

@Nightmanagerfan

Chris whitty this morning: “parents should avoid sending children to nurseries if they can”.

I hate this style of communication- either shut them or don’t rather than blaming parents for sending kids in!

Yes. Dreadful to treat adults,like well, sensible, responsible, people.

It's not his fault that some people don't have the sense they were born with!

Nurseries can't charge parents if they can't take their children

I'm pretty sure they can and do, to some extent at least. There were lots of threads complaining about it during the first lockdown.

The Competition & Markets Authority has made it clear that this is not acceptable: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/904194/Open_letter_to_Nursery_and_Early_Years__settings.pdf

I've been in both positions, in the last lockdown i had a nursery age child who was at home and this time i have a reception age child. I do think it's slightly harder with a nursery age child, he definitely needed more attention last time whereas now he is getting to the point where he can be left with his work on his own. It's mad that less than a year has made this difference when he's only had one term in school.

@HOS8595

Your kids that go to nursery don’t deserve a place more then any school age child.

You know you pay for nursery right? I'd say you deserve it based on the fact that you actually pay for the service.

Yes. Dreadful to treat adults,like well, sensible, responsible, people

That's not the issue. If the directive was to close, those who are WFH, for example, would have something to back up with their employer that they are unlikely to be able to fulfil their duties. If they are open and people can send them in, then that's a choice and most employers won't accept that.

All of these replies and no one is showing the least bit of concern for us nursery staff.

Staff putting themselves first, parents putting their children and the ability to carry on putting the food on the table first, not rocket science that both of those patterns of thought exist.

If they close nurseries while people are still legally allowed to meet up with a mate, go for a game of golf, get a take away coffee together and pop into Poundland on the way home I then I’ll....I’ll... ok I don’t know what I’ll do but the point is there’s plenty of non essential things still open that could close first!!!

@AndcalloffChristmas

Yanbu except the idea that primary children can fend for themselves. Many can’t.

You’re right most primary age children will require supervision to varying degrees. However it’s a totally different ball game to caring for a toddler whilst working.

lolz at people being so sure private nurseries will stay open for key workers - they likely won't!

Nursery i manage had 6 key workers children last April - we closed even to them in May - it was costing us way more to open for those 6 children than it would if we closed! so closing was the only option!

6 children's fee's isn't enough money to operate the nursery unfortunately

@Ilovegreentomatoes

All of these replies and no one is showing the least bit of concern for us nursery staff.

Had a conversation with my child’s key worker last week who said she was desperate for them to stay open. That last time she felt depressed, alone, put on weight and drank loads in the evenings (!)

It places young children who are not at risk from Coronavirus at direct risk of harm as their parents try and work and parent at the same time. A toddler drowned in the summer as his mum was on a conference call and he snuck outside unnoticed (to be perfectly clear I would lay no blame at his parents door whatsoever or judge them in any way). It's unacceptable that they should shut. To appeal to employers to be flexible with women just puts women at the front of the redundancy queue and reverses progress about 40 years.

Government needs to sort out the key worker places at schools before attempting to close nurseries.

There are MANY more things that should be tightened up before nurseries are closed.

Closing nurseries will increase transmission and hospitalisation/deaths because older family members will put themselves at risk doing childcare before they will see their adult children lose their jobs and homes or their tiny grandchildren injured or killed through accidents while parents try and work.

Closing nurseries would result in friends and extended families mixing to a much greater degree than they do indirectly through nurseries being open, as people simply have no option but to look after each other’s kids. While the government clearly doesn’t recognise it, doing a days work is simply not optional for most people and employers are just not closing or furloughing to anything like the degree they were in spring. So, there is simply no other option than arranging childcare for the majority of people. What’s better-nurseries open following all guidelines and the same small groups mixing each day, or the unregulated free for all that will result from closing them? Not to mention the long term impacts because as many people have already said, another closure will be the end for many nurseries and they will simply not be there after this lockdown is lifted.

Keep them open, but get the staff vaccinated ASAP.

@thetinselbadge

It places young children who are not at risk from Coronavirus at direct risk of harm as their parents try and work and parent at the same time. A toddler drowned in the summer as his mum was on a conference call and he snuck outside unnoticed (to be perfectly clear I would lay no blame at his parents door whatsoever or judge them in any way). It's unacceptable that they should shut. To appeal to employers to be flexible with women just puts women at the front of the redundancy queue and reverses progress about 40 years.

Yes! All of this. I am in financial services part time so if nursery shuts, or they apply the "places where both parents are key workers" rule, then I will have to be furloughed. We can't afford for DH to be. Which is fine, unless you're moving and you want the bank to pay for your house so you can complete on time.

This again. How can you work with nursery age children around, either at home or out the house??there’s a reason childcare is used.

Last time my nursery closed and said it would be open to key workers. Only it wasn’t viable as the numbers were so low so they shut for4 months. Just before Christmas there were only 5 children in on the last day. I just hope they survive as a business through all this.

It's not that simple.

In our area the case rate/100k in the 0-4 yo category is around 300/100k.
That's smaller than the rate across the whole lot, but is still a lot of cases.

If you have a room with 20 children in, if one of them tests positive then the whole lot have to stay at home and isolate. So none of them can be in.

If you reduce numbers by saying it has to be key workers only, and get down to 10 children, it is roughly half as likely that room will be sent home to isolate. Down to 5 and and only 25% as likely.

So by keeping open for all, you are actually increasing the chance that the keyworkers' children have to stay off.

Otoh, nurseries are private businesses, and if they don't have enough children in will close... although they may also find that if they have too many isolation periods that happens anyway.

'Chris whitty this morning: “parents should avoid sending children to nurseries if they can”.'

'I hate this style of communication- either shut them or don’t rather than blaming parents for sending kids in!'

But we have people on mn who don't need nurseries for childcare yet still send them in! Then of course others who moan about being told what to do.

Nurseries should only take dc of key workers and be reimbursed for lost revenue. It is about prioritising and reducing numbers of contacts so if staff have 15 kids instead of 30 then transmission risks are obviously reduced.

I'm a teacher and it is really worrying that they may announce about nurseries closing. Yes I'd still get a space. But what if nurseries decide it's too much hassle, furlough their staff and close? If it closes to non-keyworkers, parents only have to pay a £5 per day retainer - I can't see that being enough to sustain a business.

To the pp who said they have to close. No they don't as they have very low transmission rates. What needs to happen is for the government to look at the worst areas (still London and South East) and tighten up social meeting, bubbles, ramp up vaccinations in hospitals and care homes. The peak won't be until next week (according to my friend in the NHS). It's also only been a week since lockdown. It's going to take time for this to work. The impact of closing nurseries to reduce covid transmission will be tiny but the impact to parents will be massive ☹️. Our year 1s have the hightest uptake of keyworker admissions in my school - it is impossible to work at home with very young children, more so than year 3 upwards.

I can't see anything/much in The Telegraph this morning regarding nurseries - more about tightening bubbles, masks in workplaces, supermarkets (who are letting too many people in at once imo) etc.

Yanbu it would finish us off. My parents have several children each with children, they cant provide childcare for all even if they were close enough to do so. Employers won't/can't take the hit again.

If nurseries close again I'll be forced to break the rules and have informal childcare swaps with neighbours etc, I think a lot of people are in the same boat.