To think closing nurseries would be disastrous?

[Purgatory2021]

I'm seeing it discussed left right and centre, my post was prompted by television this morning.

For many reasons (none selfish) I think it would be disastrous, but the one that stands out to me the most is people's ability to work.

I'm sure there will be plenty of nurses/HCP's/important key workers who rely on nursery to be able to do their jobs.

Not everybody has family that can step in.

Older primary aged children and secondary age children can fend for themselves to a degree if push came to shove, but you can't do the same with toddlers and babies.

I'm a nursery nurse whos tested positive this morning, I caught it from a child.
A child whos parents are both furloughed who came in with a cough and smelling of calpol.
I'm almost 50 and just missed the shielding list, I am terrified.

I'm so sorry to read this and I hope you feel better very soon. As a nursery nurse I know how common this is- all those children coming in who are 'just teething' or 'just have a cold'.

We had a staff member test positive in December, she had only been at work so she potentially caught it from an asymptomatic child. Two further members of staff in that room then tested positive, and both of their husbands. Then one child from that room tested positive along with the rest of their household. It's frightening.

*new boss

I'm looking after 4 children and homeschooling my own son.
It can be done without relying on tv etc.

tatutata 👏🏻 what you said!

I agree, also small children are such hard work, it gives parents mental space to have a breather when soft play etc closed Down, can't do usual toddler groups.
But nursery staff need to be protected as well they mix also

People saying things along the lines of : well they can go in a play pen for abit.. little breastfeed .. little nap .. little tv etc and then I can catch up during the evening

My job would not allow me to do any of the above I work 12.5 hours in a call centre ( from home - taking clinical triage calls as a nurse ) so I can't just log of for abit .. go feed baby , entertain for a little while , log off earlier and catch up on the night . I have to be plugged in wearing a headset for the whole of my shift bar a one 30 minute break. Therefore my 2 year old must go to nursery on the 2 days I work ( partner works GP surgery )

The claim that small children don’t spread it has long been disputed. Especially now with the new variant!

@nininani clearly your child should qualify for a key worker place.

[quote EarlGreywithLemon]@nininani clearly your child should qualify for a key worker place.[/quote]
Of course she will be. Howe2, as many of us have pointed out that's no use at all when the nursery is closed as it's not financially viable to only open to vulnerable and key worker children.

@EarlGreywithLemon

I also agree with you Britches. My dad lost his mum at a young age and has never ever got over that. It informs almost everything he does. Heartbreakingly, he thought his dad and grandmother had hidden her in a cupboard, and was begging them to let her out. I’d rather my daughter missed any number of years of school or “socialisation” than that.

How very sad for your Dad. My Mum was only 5 when her Mum died of TB. My Grandad was in the Navy so she had to go into care when he was away. The vast majority of it bloody awful (as much of it still is today).

My Aunt died at 42 leaving behind a 13yo & an 11yo. They're in their 40's now, it's certainly impacted their lives.

Sadly, I could go on.

The average age being admitted for Covid is now 60. The ICU specialist on the other day said almost all of his patients were like him/his wife, 40's/early 50's school age kids, fit, healthy etc.

A period of no socialisation/education is something that can be caught up, the trauma of parents dying cannot.

WFH and looking after a young child poses risks to the child

I’d imagine very few compared to the risk to others like ate staff and families given current virus cases.

@Bonkerz

Thanks witchesbritches........ it's a shame we aren't seen critical enough to gain discounts from supermarkets and free coffee from mcD etc. Our job in general is the secret key worker no one recognises. Even when announcements are made they talk about nurseries and childminders don't get a separate mention. I'd prefer them to use 'early years settings' than separate us and exclude us.

I'm probably guilty of sometimes typing nursery staff when what I mean is both nursery & childminders! I'll stop taking short cuts!!!

You should absolutely be getting any discounts etc - with obviously the main point being the actual recognition of your massive contribution to keep the wheels turning.

I appreciate you minding kids for people who are doing such vital jobs for so many 💐

It should be like it was previously and nurseries closed to anyone other than key workers children. I don't understand why a child being at nursery is more important than a child being at school getting an education. I have a 4 year old who I'm homeschooling it's not ideal and I'm sure I've aged 10 years in these lockdowns but I do it to keep others safe. I have a doctor and a nurse friends who have said how it's gone crazy this last 2 weeks my nurse friend said on her ICU unit it's people in their 40s and 50s not old people you'd imagine. Many people using these places don't even work or just one person in the family work so there is a parent able to look after their child. Yes it's hard work and we are all spinning plates, treading water to survive but if we are in a lockdown then make it a proper lockdown.

Op, how would you feel if you worked in a nursery?

I'm a deputy manager of a preschool, I'm clinically vulnerable and pretty terrified of infection. COVID rates in our area are increasing massively. This is not about the risks to children, but more about the risks to staff and the wider comminuty along wih the unnecessary contacts between multiple households.

We are happy to open to key worker and vulnerable children, but not to be open to all, just to make life easier for people who can work from home. We all need to put ourselves out a bit right now and, at thne end of the day, your children are your repsonsibilityb and have to come before work or anything else for that matter. @alwaysraining123 why should nursery staff look after your child so you can work from home? And how does WFH pose a risk to the child?

@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants I'm so sorry, that's awful.
One victim I personally know of - friend of friend - was a 38 year old mother of two small children, healthy, with no pre-existing conditions. It just doesn't bear thinking about. Her husband only had the mildest symptoms. The problem with this virus is that it's just so unpredictable. It looks like that's down to having certain genes, but we obviously can't test everyone so there's no way of predicting who will or won't be affected.
It's also not just about deaths. A stay in ICU, or even on a regular ward, can mean months of difficult recovery afterwards, and sometimes life changing consequences. So even if there is an NHS bed for you, why would you want to fill it? That's before we even start on long Covid. I want to not just be around for my daughter, but fit and healthy as she grows up.

From a personal standpoint, I'm an early years worker. I'm also a single parent to DD(9) who is currently being assessed for autism. We have been alone throughout this pandemic. There is nobody I can bubble with for childcare or support. Her father and family have been mixing as normal, so that is not an option.

This means DD going into school as a keyworker's child and adding to numbers in the classroom, so I can work. I am considerably late for work each day, as wraparound care is not currently running. School have been amazing, but they aren't educating her (I'm trying to homeschool her after work, alongside completing the various reports, lesson prep, emails and other admin that comes as part of my job).

Quite frankly, she is finding the chop and change in routine/familiar faces incredibly upsetting and I, like so many others, am finding the juggling too much.

I am working with open windows and cleaning of resources being the only mitigating factors. PPE is not required according to the DfE...

Under five year olds (quite naturally) do not socially distance...or wipe their own noses...or cover their coughs. In the last week alone I have had a child cough in my face, as I helped them to zip up their coat, another wipe their nose on my hand and a third spit at staff when they have become upset.

We try to stay on top of handwashing, but with three sinks to be shared between staff and children, this does not feel adequate.

There is no way of knowing which families have or have not stuck to the guidelines, but many children delight in telling us whose house they are going to play at.

Parents send their children in trying to hide covid symptoms by dosing them up on calpol and then seem aggrieved when we ask them to collect their child, isolate and get tested.

Contrary to popular belief, our small team is made up of workers aged 30-60+ and each of us has our own worries and concerns, but each of us comes to work because we:

A) Love what we do. Nobody does this for the money!
B) Have no option but to work. We too have families to provide for. Furlough is not currently available, as government expects us to open to remain open...

One member of staff has already handed in their notice and this has negatively impacted staff morale further.

I think the overall feeling is that our sector has been thrown under the proverbial bus, with little regard to our health from government or parents or for the fact that we are working in an extremely unsafe environment.

As far as I am aware, we are the only educational settings who are able to open to all, working in prolonged close proximity to multiple households without masks, enhanced cleaning, ventilation, distancing measures or asymptomatic testing in place. It truly is business as normal and as many colleagues have expressed - it is extremely frightening!

I do not believe that the statistical data reflects the reality, as many under fives are asymptomatic and parents understandably don't want to put their children through such an unpleasant test and often opt to isolate instead.

We would be more than happy to open to vulnerable children and the children of those whose parents are front line workers, in line with other educational settings, but this would need to be alongside financial support from government to supplement income lost from other families unable to attend, in order for us to reopen to all at some stage.

I also recognise the impact this will have on working families and think government really need to knuckle down on employers of working parents to provide legal protections for those put on furlough due to childcare responsibilities.

Going forward, school and early years staff should be prioritised alongside other keyworkers such as NHS and care staff, in order for schools to reopen to all as quickly as possible, with little risk of them closing due to staff shortages, which is a major issue at the moment.

I personally feel at this point that it is inevitable that I am going to catch Covid through my place of work and if/when I do, I just pray I will remain well enough to look after DD, or else we are stuffed - nobody will be coming to help us out or make sure we are ok.

I love my job - I truly do, but I love my daughter more and just want to be ok for her...

Feeling pretty sorry for myself right now, but am resigned to the fact that this is happening and there is nothing I can do except put my head down and get on with it and do the best job that I can for the children within our care. It's not their fault that the country is in this divisive mess, after all...

Sorry about typos!

@Same4Walls the government needs to step up and support the nurseries. If we can afford Eat out to Help Out, Brexit and an increase of the defence budget, we can afford to support nurseries. We already have one of the worst state early years education provision anywhere in Europe.

@dumbledory I'm so so sorry. My heart goes out to you!

[quote EarlGreywithLemon]@Same4Walls the government needs to step up and support the nurseries. If we can afford Eat out to Help Out, Brexit and an increase of the defence budget, we can afford to support nurseries. We already have one of the worst state early years education provision anywhere in Europe.[/quote]
I'm not disagreeing that they should step up to support nurseries but based on previous underfunding to think they will is pretty unrealistic.

We are happy to open to key worker and vulnerable children, but not to be open to all, just to make life easier for people who can work from home.

That’s really good that your nursery can stay open and remain financially viable with only fees from keyworker children but it just isn’t the case for many.

If you’re clinically vulnerable can you request furlough? Take unpaid leave? Lots of parents will have to - more if nurseries shut. I would have thought the risk of infection remains pretty high even if you’re caring for keyworker children. They’re the ones whose parents are most likely to come into contact with the virus!

@Same4Walls we should all do more to lobby the government about this. Write to local MPs?

I've got a 15 month old. I can do bits of work watching her no problem. It depends on the nature of your job surely? And won't employers be understanding? It's better than not doing your job at all.

I'm confused about why people who are clinically vunerable are still going to work when the government advice is telling then to stay at home?

@Buddytheelf85 I'm speaking hypotehtically about staying open for KW and V children. Our setting wouldn't be able to stay open at all unless funding is still paid for for all children on roll. The point I'm making is that nursery staff aren't trying to shy away from doing their jobs, but feel that we are being treated very badly in being expected to open for all when primary and secondary schools are only open to KW&V. I agree that the risk remains high with those children, but it would trigger a rethink on how the place operates which may lead to reduced staff hours and therefore reduced contact.
With regard to my own position, I am new to the setting (started after October half term) and as such still trying to settle in and get to know how they do things!