To think closing nurseries would be disastrous?

[Purgatory2021]

I'm seeing it discussed left right and centre, my post was prompted by television this morning.

For many reasons (none selfish) I think it would be disastrous, but the one that stands out to me the most is people's ability to work.

I'm sure there will be plenty of nurses/HCP's/important key workers who rely on nursery to be able to do their jobs.

Not everybody has family that can step in.

Older primary aged children and secondary age children can fend for themselves to a degree if push came to shove, but you can't do the same with toddlers and babies.

@SoRuff63

But please please please if you are: * on maternity leave, *are fortunate enough to be a stay at home parent, *are furloughed *or can make arrangements for your child to be cared for at home - THEN JUST DO IT. There are too many children attending nurseries who don’t need to be there.

Same as another poster. Currently on mat leave so would be happy to not send my 2 year old in.

Floated the idea to the nursery manager last week and was immediately told I would still be liable for her full monthly fees (not even a retainer) if I chose to not have my toddler attend at the moment whilst they are open to all children. I’m just not going to fork out £750+ a month without something to show for it...

@Mumofsend

Key worker only provision at nursery level isn't viable for many nurseries. DS is one of 6 at his preschool eligible. They have said they can remain open only if all 6 take up the spaces.

It would be viable if the nurseries & parents pushed fir the Govt to top up the funding.

Nurseries have pushed endlessly for government to top up the funding, to no avail.

Marzipan12 this post is bonkers.

‘Then make the room completely toddler safe. I'm sorry but the education of older kids is far more essential than toddler care esp when things can be put in place like baby/toddler proofing. It's not rocker science and something us with older kids also had to do.’

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Unfortunately it needs to happen.

It’s a bit early to say that - the effect of this lockdown has yet to be seen. Current hospital admissions are from Christmas mixing.

It would be viable if the nurseries & parents pushed fir the Govt to top up the funding.

Sadly it didn't happen before the pandemic despite pressure from parents and nurseries so it's certainly not going to happen now.

@Heartlantern2

Nursery and key stage 1 should be treated the same. Closed apart from key workers only.

KS1 will suffer more as they are actually supposed to be learning at a certain pace

KS1 learning or not really isn't the biggest factor to be considered. Kids learn just going about their lives at home. Parents can read to them & establish basic maths skills. As well as make sure their personal skills are coming along.

People dying by the thousands is much more important. Kids can catch up - kids starting school at a much older age overseas don't turn into useless adults. You cannot undead people & that includes the young mum who had cancer, or the young Dad who had a heart attack and there aren't any beds/staff to treat them.

Young kids will catch up!

I agree with you @Purgatory2021

@EssentialHummus

I agree with soruff. My wish list:

• Financial support for nurseries who suffer due to closure so they don't go under
• Furlough for staff who need it (in all sectors)
• Nurseries for KWs
• Tighter KW definitions for nurseries and schools

I'm keeping DD off (while working! and paying! Fun fun fun!) Some friends are doing likewise. Others are sending DC in. Nurseries near me absolutely have cases - what are people expecting when staff have to arrive on public transport and some parents work in supermarkets or hospitals?

Completely agree!

@NigellasGuest

Nurseries have pushed endlessly for government to top up the funding, to no avail.

Yep there’s already pressure there as for some nurseries the funding isn’t enough and they don’t offer 30 free hours at all.

This is Ireland right now. There’s no preschool, crèches etc open , there’s talk of some opening but none where I am. There’s also no schools open for key worker children or students with sn. They were supposed to but the unions blocked it.
There’s actually talk of no school until teachers here get vaccinated which might take us to September.. 8 months!! At this stage I wouldn’t be surprised tbh, Irish schools also never went back in the summer 2020...

@Bonkerz

As a childminder I welcome 5 extra children into my home. Each child has siblings and parents who could also carry the virus. I have to offer a level of education to these children and I have to home educate my own children. I am not considered important enough to have regular testing or important enough to be considered for a vaccine sooner. My role is not valued yet I am expected to put myself and my family under extra risk.

Financially I cannot afford to close my buisness because the grant is about £400 a month which won't pay my bills as a single parent. I can't be furloughed. I can't charge parents if we close.

If we close to everyone but key workers I lose 4 income streams and will just have to try and rob peter to pay Paul. I'm exhausted by it all.

It's awful isn't it.

As ive already said so many times, I think CM's & nursery staff along with all school staff should be vaccinated ASAP if they're in person teaching/caring. You're doing a critical Job & you need protection! (Respect, acknowledgement etc would be bloody good too!).

Best of luck getting through this bloody awful time 💐

I also agree with you Britches. My dad lost his mum at a young age and has never ever got over that. It informs almost everything he does. Heartbreakingly, he thought his dad and grandmother had hidden her in a cupboard, and was begging them to let her out. I’d rather my daughter missed any number of years of school or “socialisation” than that.

And to those who say that parents shouldn’t send their kids in sick and that would sort the issue. Absolutely parents should keep their kids at home if unwell (frankly they should have done that pre COVID too). But that’s not enough. They often can, and do, develop symptoms during the day when they are already at nursery. Plus you are infectious on average two days before you develop COVID symptoms.

[quote Astormofswords]@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants this where I’ve been going wrong

Gin in the morning, chocolate for lunch and wine in the evening 🙈😂[/quote]
Much better!!

Throw in some coffee & you'll almost be there!

@whatkatydid2013

I don’t know what the answer but we have an August baby in reception so were she a week younger she’d still be in nursery. I don’t think she’s really any easier or harder to look after than a child a week younger. She’s a lot easier to wfh with now than she would have been between 2 & 3 but harder to manage than it would have been when she was an older baby. At 1 she could have been in a play pen with toys some of the time, still breastfeeding a bit and napping some of the time. Between those and working evenings we could have managed. I think one of us would have had to stop work if she’d been 2 1/2 rather than 3 1/2 lash lockdown though.

I have an August child in reception as well and a 1 year old toddler. By no means is anyone saying young school aged children are easy to look after while working from home. We’re just saying that toddlers are impossible to look after while working from home. Most people on this thread understand the pressure point in closing nurseries is the care of babies and toddlers (not so much older preschoolers).

It’s the difference between difficult and impossible. One (looking after school aged children while working) is manageable albeit with difficulty. The other (looking after nursery children, particularly toddlers, while working) will result in many parents losing their jobs or putting their toddlers in danger through neglect.

Thanks witchesbritches........ it's a shame we aren't seen critical enough to gain discounts from supermarkets and free coffee from mcD etc. Our job in general is the secret key worker no one recognises.
Even when announcements are made they talk about nurseries and childminders don't get a separate mention. I'd prefer them to use 'early years settings' than separate us and exclude us.

Most people would agree that vulnerable and families with 2 critical workers (or a single critical worker) should continue to have access to nursery.
It would not be any more disastrous for a family with a SAHP and a nursery aged child to stay at home than a family with a SAHP and school aged child.

@EarlGreywithLemon

And to those who say that parents shouldn’t send their kids in sick and that would sort the issue. Absolutely parents should keep their kids at home if unwell (frankly they should have done that pre COVID too). But that’s not enough. They often can, and do, develop symptoms during the day when they are already at nursery. Plus you are infectious on average two days before you develop COVID symptoms.

In the case of babies teething and colds often share symptoms making it harder to judge whether or not to send them in or was that just me?

It would not be any more disastrous for a family with a SAHP and a nursery aged child to stay at home than a family with a SAHP and school aged child.

Not everyone falls into your classifications though. What about non key workers working from home? Or one working outside the home?

I’m sending my dd to start nursery in March after I finish my mat leave she was a middle of lockdown baby. Both myself and my partner are both key workers and are WFM for now but I can tell you there is no way we can just baby proof a room and leave my by then 9mo to get on with it. Both our jobs need our full attention we are both in safeguarding roles. My dp gets something wrong there’s a child or vulnerable adult at major risk, I get mine wrong and a whole family goes without food, electricity, gas. Do I want to send my DD, do I f*ck I haven’t even seen the nursery properly just a quick walk through but they have called me every month since I booked her place in September and keep me updated on what’s going on they are amazing the people that work in there but this is not what I planned for my first year of my first DD’s life and we have no choice but to send her and the nursery knows this with the ones that are sending their babies in. If they close the nursery then I will have to take unpaid leave and we will struggle to pay our mortgage and everything that comes with it. It’s being stuck between a rock and a hard place I don’t want to send her for the sake of it believe me.

@marshmallowfluffy definitely not just you.
Plus, as we all know, they catch every cold within a mile radius at this age. And Covid in children doesn't always manifest with a temperature or a cough. So it's a complete minefield!

What difference are they likely to make in terms of spread? What are the consequences of shutting them? Weigh it up properly.

Yes, I am not sure of the evidence that nurseries increase spread. Under 7s don't really - the issue is congregations of adults at drop of and collection time at schools (for infants, juniors and above the children themselves cause the spread). At nurseries you don't get the same issue as pick and drop off times are more staggered.

It would be a nightmare, many nurseries would choose to close and not open to keyworker kids as it isn't financially viable - happened to many of my colleagues last lockdown.

[quote KnobJockey]@ThePurpleGirl it was part of his BBC video call this morning. That's a simplistic view of it though. He was asked if nurseries should close, his view was that at the minute no, their are wider implications and it's not an area where spread is high, we are better off following the current regulations than introducing new ones. However, if possible, you should keep your child at home.

I personally took that as- if you are a SAHP, and it's for a break, or if you have the option of being furloughed, then do it and stay at home. Don't beat yourself up if you need to use it for work.[/quote]
Thanks @KnobJockey.
I'm worried we're not giving DS enough attention as DH is working full time from home and is on and off video and phone calls all day, and I'm trying to home school DD (7) who whilst quite capable academically is not very independent, and I'm also trying to study myself (final year PhD). Sending DS to preschool would mean he actually gets some attention and to play with other children his age. On the flipside DD has quite bad asthma so it feels mad to increase our exposure risk by sending him when we can muddle through, plus I feel bad for all the staff who are mostly over 50s.

YANBU I'm terrified of them closing and having to look after DD and work and study. We did 11 weeks at home before and I nearly got sacked because I had a bee boss and was doing such a crap job!