To refuse to go back to the office

[tillytalks]

I’m currently on mat leave and due back to work on the 15th March.

I work in an office with 12 other people.
At present everyone is in the office.

There is no reason why people can’t work from
home, and I’m pretty sure the reason is that management are the type that wouldn’t trust staff to work at home.
It’s a family run business and the owners are quite precious.

I’m really careful, I don’t mix, I follow the rules to the letter.

I’m 34, have mild asthma and I also have a high BMI (more than 30 but less than 40)
I’m working out and eating well so I’m hoping this will reduce.

Even still, I just don’t feel comfortable sitting in an office all day with 12 other people.
The office isn’t big. It’s a long room, and although we can distance, I feel like it would still be crowded.

I know that I wouldn’t be given any preferential treatment to work from home, but I haven’t asked so can’t be too sure.

I’ll be working 3 days per week and my son (who will be 13m) will be in a nursery.

I’m also aware that my son being in nursery puts me at risk which is something else I’ve been thinking over.

AIBU to not want to return?

I can claim complete ignorance re office work as noone I know works in one, which is quite odd when I think about it, so I assumed that loads were and that was why Mr Johnson was on the news asking everyone to go back to the office a few months back. I apologise for ony talking about england, but that is all I have noticed on the news and it was mostly talking about London.
In answer to the post conundrum perhaps some kind of rota would be sensible or those that prefer to work in the actual office get to do that.

You say mild asthma, are you in priority group 6 for the vaccine (do you take a steroid preventor inhaler e.g. brown one)? Your BMI below 40 doesn't put you in a priority group but if your asthma does then I would request from your work a risk assessment that reflects you being vulnerable, with the assumption that you should be getting the vaccine pretty soon. If you aren't in a priority group for the vaccine then you aren't classed as more vulnerable and should be treated the same as the rest of your office.

[quote tillytalks]@Viciouslybashed

Do you know I had assumed that the op was in England apologies if that was wrong.

I am in England. [/quote]
😊

@Mousehole10

You say mild asthma, are you in priority group 6 for the vaccine (do you take a steroid preventor inhaler e.g. brown one)? Your BMI below 40 doesn't put you in a priority group but if your asthma does then I would request from your work a risk assessment that reflects you being vulnerable, with the assumption that you should be getting the vaccine pretty soon. If you aren't in a priority group for the vaccine then you aren't classed as more vulnerable and should be treated the same as the rest of your office.

@Mousehole10

I have a brown and blue inhaler.

Really? Has this changed now then because the last I checked it was only severe asthma that was a priority group.

Again. You just assume the OP is lying. She’s stated she CAN do her job from home. I understand that some people can’t. I also assume she isn’t responsible for the physical mail.

This is pointless. You’re determined to prove the OP isn’t being honest. You also don’t seem to believe that some businesses might not follow the guidelines.

Court cases aren’t decided “on the balance of probabilities”, they’re decided on “beyond reasonable doubt”.

Criminal cases are decided on the standard of proof of "beyond reasonable doubt".

Civil cases, such as employment tribunals and higher employment courts, are decided on the standard of "balance of probability". Both are "court cases", two totally different standards of proof.

If the employer were prosecuted for breaching Covid law, that would be a criminal case. But if, for example, the OP felt she had no choice but to resign and brought a constructive dismissal claim, that would be decided on the balance of probability.

Chipsandchesses To be fair it does get a little difficult when an OP rehearses quite so many reasons not to go in, then insists they "don't have a strong preference to WFH"

However as I've said repeatedly, we can't know what the exact position is because we're not there

@tillytalks Apparently it has changed. I haven't seen it changed on the vaccine list yet but there was an update to say that severe asthma is in group 4, moderate asthma is in group 6. That's people who have a steroid inhaler and are eligible for the free flu vaccine.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Chipsandchesses To be fair it does get a little difficult when an OP rehearses quite so many reasons not to go in, then insists they "don't have a strong preference to WFH"

However as I've said repeatedly, we can't know what the exact position is because we're not there

@Puzzledandpissedoff

What do you mean, rehearses so many reasons...

I’ve been open and honest about my reasons.
Asthma, high BMI.
I don’t feel comfortable sharing a small office with 12 people.
The law is to stay at home, we’re being told to work from home.

What’s rehearsed?!

@tillytalks Do they have the equipment and infrastructure for remote working?

"Rehearse" as in "practise what to say" (to the employer), OP

Anyway, good luck with convoincing them ...

[quote KatherineJaneway]@tillytalks Do they have the equipment and infrastructure for remote working?[/quote]
@KatherineJaneway

Yes, they do
Back in lockdown 1 a few people in the building(not my office) were working from home.

I should add that was due to childcare at the time.

The law is to stay at home, we’re being told to work from home.
No
The guidance is to wfh were practicable to do so, dependent upon I do business needs .I'm afraid You don’t have a universal entitlement to wfh. You make a request, work assess it may or may not grant it

Work obligations
Duty of care

Employers should ensure that they have taken all reasonable steps to either enable the employee to continue working safely in the office (i.e. ensuring that they have complied with regulations and guidance so that their workplace is COVID secure)

YANBU to think 'work from home where you can' means 'work from home where you can' you're mot working in a building site or in a supermarket etc. The Govt had said Employers must get on board with this.

People have given you ways to challenge them. They need to be able to ckearky state why it's not possible for you to wfh.

DD being in nursery is a risk & nurseries have had bubbles collapse, but you working with 12 plus adults in a small
Place us much riskier.

If I were you I'd...

Fully check out the mat leave/holiday situation to make sure you're getting what you're entitled to

Get all the information re challenging them on wfh.

Have a good look at your finances and see if you can affordable to resign if it comes to it.

See what jobs are available for your skill set.
& apply if any wfh/other better working situations come up.

Then try not to spoil the rest of your keabe worrying about it. So much will be different by mid March.

Take care
X

Op please don’t resign on the ill judged advice of someone on mn

@tillytalks severe asthma was classed (it may be changing) on dosage of steroids, including oral steroids, admission to intensive care at any point and taking another oral medication such as monteleukast.

Just taking a regular dose of a preventative inhaler did not class asthma as severe.

"So perhaps WFH one day a week and then go in two"

So hang on, what if you worked a 5 day week? By your suggestion, you would be happy wfh 2 days a week and going in 3 days. You've already minimised risk by reducing your hours.

This isn't about being concerned about being put at risk otherwise you'd not want to go in at all. This is because you see a chance to wfh and you want to try and utilise it.

I actually don't blame you for that! But it's disingenuous to suggest your sole motivation is "minimising risk" when it so clearly isn't.

As someone with mild-medium level asthma who has been covering for staff members unwilling to work in the office throughout the lockdown, I find this interesting. I did catch what I think was Covid quite early and in my case (I know its highly variable for asthmatics) having my steroid inhaler to hand helped me recover.

Anyway, its probably been said already, but small business of 12 employees, business owners struggling to keep everything together, mnn you're going to be popular when it comes to the financial crunch of maybe losing 1 or 2 members of staff to redundancy.

I also think its far easier to keep weight under control in a daily routine of going out of the home to work.

@theantsgomarchin

This isn't about being concerned about being put at risk otherwise you'd not want to go in at all. This is because you see a chance to wfh and you want to try and utilise it.

No, it’s really not...!

I actually like being in an office, socialising, chatting.

It has nothing to do with wanting to be at home.
It’s all to do with risks!

I don’t even go to a supermarket. Im not allowed have family in my home, yet I’m expected to go and sit in an office for 8 hours a day with other people.

@GreenlandTheMovie

Anyway, its probably been said already, but small business of 12 employees, business owners struggling to keep everything together, mnn you're going to be popular when it comes to the financial crunch of maybe losing 1 or 2 members of staff to redundancy.

Where did I say there was only 12 members of staff in my company...?

That’s in my office!! There’s another office next door that has twice that amount.
There’s 3 offices downstairs that have staff in them. Not to mention the receptionist, HR and then management!

We have 100+ employees at my company.
Only 12 of us in my department / office.

Op - what reasons did you leave the house for just before lockdown? Did you go to the local shops or supermarkets, did you go for walks, or did you stay in 24hrs a day?

@Tistheseason17

Op - what reasons did you leave the house for just before lockdown? Did you go to the local shops or supermarkets, did you go for walks, or did you stay in 24hrs a day?

@Tistheseason17

I take my son for a walk every day. We go to different parks (all local)
I don’t go to shops or supermarkets.
Our shopping is delivered (always has been even before Covid, so that’s not pandemic related)

@theantsgomarchin

This isn't about being concerned about being put at risk otherwise you'd not want to go in at all

I don’t want to go in at all! I’ve said that previously and then had PP’s accuse me of just not wanting to work... 🙄
And me you accuse me of just wanting to work from home. Can’t win 🤣