to think Derbyshire police need to read the LAW and understand that you can't fine people when they are not breaking it

[chomalungma]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814

Surrounded by police, treated like a criminal for driving 5 miles to a beauty spot for a walk.

It is not illegal to drive to exercise.

*I go more than five miles from my home on an almost daily basis to exercise, I sometimes buy s picnic on the way home.

At least now I know this makes me a dangerous criminal.*

Hope you don't sit down and eat that picnic in public. If you do then you deserve life imprisonment.

And to answer the original question - yes police enforce what the law actually says, not what they think it says or would like it to say. Derbyshire police need to go back to the drawing board.

However, during lockdown one someone came on here and said she was in the police and you couldn't expect them to read and understand everything before they went on duty. I fundamentally disagree - if you are enforcing the law, you make sure you understand it.

@Dugee

*I go more than five miles from my home on an almost daily basis to exercise, I sometimes buy s picnic on the way home.

At least now I know this makes me a dangerous criminal.*

Hope you don't sit down and eat that picnic in public. If you do then you deserve life imprisonment.

I wouldn’t put this lovely 🍑 on a park bench.

@AldiAisleofCrap

You exercise in your local area, not the area you wish you lived in.

Oh and we're back to "can we please keep the plebs out of our road". Didn't someone post on here during the first lockdown that it was terrible that all these people were walking past her house and how dare they when she'd paid £100k more for her house than they had.

Yes, public footpaths in the countryside are not just for people who live near them, just like the Tesco Express at the end of my road isn't just for my road (and the villagers in the countryside feel free to come and buy their provisions there, even though they don't live there and probably have to drive there). Buying food and exercise are in the same section of the guidelines with equal weighting.

With a leader who believes in personal freedom to the extent that he doesn't brush his hair or keep his trousers on if he doesn't want to?

Fair point, OHolyTights (love the username BTW) except it's not just up to him

Nobody wants to encourage obviously risky behaviour and nobody's exactly enjoying Covid - but some are certainly enjoying the opportunity for a little more power and the chance to throw their weight around

@fluufy

I don't think any of you know how the law, policing, or courts work at all. And yet have many vitriolic opinions on all of the above.

Vitriolic opinions because we don't believe the police should abuse power?

Tell me, are you a copier or is your husband? And what do to think of the police's action here? In a situation where two women were thoroughly acting lawfully?

@TheTeenageYears

"exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person, this should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area"

"Stay local means stay in the village, town, or part of the city where you live."

In this case they should exercise in Ashby-de-la-Zouch so they were breaking the rules.

Your second quote is one that doesn't actually exist

@benedicto

Yes, public footpaths in the countryside are not just for people who live near them, just like the Tesco Express at the end of my road isn't just for my road (and the villagers in the countryside feel free to come and buy their provisions there, even though they don't live there and probably have to drive there). Buying food and exercise are in the same section of the guidelines with equal weighting.

I agree - I support the right to roam and help keep unused footpaths open. personally I thing D'shire police a re being dicks, but they may have issued the fine correctly in this case.

village, town or part of city

At the risk of sounding all panto, oh yes it does.

@Horizons83

I took the DC for a drive this morning and the police (Northumbria) were pulling over cars at random in and out of the village. I got pulled over and asked where I was going, I explained the DC were on the verge of killing one another so I was taking them for a drive along the seafront (one mile from my house and many, many miles long), we wouldn't be getting out of the car, it was purely to help calm them and maybe even encourage the 3yo and 11yo to have a nap before I end up doing a murder. Police laughed and waved me on my way.

The irony there @FoxyTheFox is that your journey was absolutely illegal! Going for such a drive is not permitted under the legislation. If you had got out of the are and walked on the seafront that would be OK as it would be leaving the house for exercise.

Not blaming you for doing what you did, and I think that the police's response was correct. I'm just showing how stupid the whole thing is.

The journey @FoxyTheFox took was not illegal at all 🤣

It's not illegal to go for a drive FFS.

Oh how I have enjoyed The Law According To Mumsnet Seminar this afternoon

Let's not get all urban v rural or I shall have to pick up my pitchfork.

I make full if occasional use of towns and cities in normal times. In turn I accept that millions of people will want to enjoy 'my' National Park in normal times. I even welcome many of them - the considerate ones - as I hope to be welcomed when I am a visitor anywhere.

However, during lockdown one someone came on here and said she was in the police and you couldn't expect them to read and understand everything before they went on duty. I fundamentally disagree - if you are enforcing the law, you make sure you understand it.

I fully believe that's how they all work and I think all forces need some serious re-training

Will they socially distance? If you know that they will then ok yes fine.

Mine wouldn't.

Wrong thread

This does sound heavy handed.However we need to get on top of this thing once and for all.I'm just grateful that I don't need to carry papers explaining why I'm leaving my home as in some countries..And won't push it by driving more than a couple of miles,and preferably walking from home to exercise my dogs.Even though some of my preferred walks are the other side of town some 7/10 miles away.Last year's lockdown showed how 5 miles becomes 15 and tbh some people continue to push the boundaries.Constantly.Maybe because I've a relative in the police force who was ill with Covid almost certainly caught on duty trying to reason with people driving ridiculous distances to a beach,and ignoring social distancing etc.

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

So which part of the legislation did this fall under? Of course going for a random drive to alleviate boredom is against the law.

I will concede you may consider it was leaving the house due to the care of a vulnerable person, but that's about it.

My point is I don't care that she went, I would consider going the same, but it is ridiculous that the police in her area sent her off with a smile, but the other ones fine individuals who are following the law.

And before you think I don't know what I am talking about, or that I am keen to make sure everyone stays in the house at all times, I suggest you read my post:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4126959-New-English-COVID-legislation-published

This does sound heavy handed.However we need to get on top of this thing once and for all.I'm just grateful that I don't need to carry papers explaining why I'm leaving my home as in some countries

It is more than heavy handed to be fining people for laws that don't exist.

On a side note DH was stopped twice this morning travelling the 30 minutes to work and asked for proof as to why he was travelling so far.

@MrsMiaWallis there was a video circulating a few weeks ago during lockdown 2.0 taken in Cumbria. An elderley man had accidentally driven into a police training at EA S after all that was used to cordon the area off was a metal barrier on one side of the road with no sign.

A passer by filmed the officer screaming, with no mask on, into the car of the man calling him a "fucking stupid old man" and a "fucking idiot", for about five minutes. He also ripped the car keys out the man's ignition, breaking it. The man could be heard saying "you're frightening me". The officer got a shock and suddenly calmed down when he realised he'd been filming. The driver was shaking when he got out the car and had to take it to a garage with the broken ignition.

Cumbria police tweeted something like "the video was taken out of context". I wonder what kind of context makes it ok to behave like the officer did?

I wonder if officers ever wear masks when screaming in the faces of elderley men? Maybe one of the officers of abuse apologists on this thread can advise us on procedure??

So which part of the legislation did this fall under? Of course going for a random drive to alleviate boredom is against the law.

You tell me? If you think it's against the law it's up to you to provide the legislation, not me. There's no legislation that states what isn't illegal 😂

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows It's not illegal to go for a drive FFS I’m not convinced - the way the legislation is worded is that you can only leave your house if it is for one of a number of specified purposes. Going for a drive is not one of them. So if I need to get my 3 year old to sleep I can drive to the McDonald’s drive through with him (“essential” food), but I can’t just drive round the block.

I wouldn’t be against ‘local’ being defined and becoming part of the legislation. But as it currently isn’t illegal to travel 5 miles, they shouldn’t be fined for it. I can’t believe how many people here think it’s acceptable for police to hand out fines to people who aren’t breaking the law!

I’ve followed the law at all times. I’ve stayed local as well.... this includes going to my nearest supermarket, 1 mile away but in the next county. This has made me worried about getting fined for that. Thames Valley Police were turning people back who tried to cross the river to get to their nearest supermarket. Posters who are happy these women got fined - how would you feel if you got fined while following the law?

@Same4Walls

This does sound heavy handed.However we need to get on top of this thing once and for all.I'm just grateful that I don't need to carry papers explaining why I'm leaving my home as in some countries

It is more than heavy handed to be fining people for laws that don't exist.

On a side note DH was stopped twice this morning travelling the 30 minutes to work and asked for proof as to why he was travelling so far.

The thing is that it would actually be easier to carry papers at this time, like in France, that specify the reason for you being out. Then you can rest assured that if you are within the guidelines and have printed off the correct sheet off the internet, the police won't fine you and you won't have to go to court to get the fine overturned. Also if a sheet were required, at least the government would have to specify what constitutes 'local' and put in writing about the travel for exercise issue. The problem right now in England is that none of this is defined. We may think we are within the guidelines only for a police officer with the power to issue fines to decide we are not, despite the offence for the fine not being defined in terms of distance or time or locality.

Perhaps not a good idea @benedicto because 1984 is a novel, not a how-to guide?

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

OK then... although I have linked it it several times already!

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/schedule/3A

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020, as amended

Schedule 3A.

You cannot leave your house unless there is a reasonable excuse. Paragraph 1.

There is a list of reasonable excuses (Paragraph 2) - which is extensive but does not include going for a leisure drive.

It does however allow you to go for exercise (any distance from home), visit a business to purchase goods (Starbucks being a business that is approved to be open under Schedule 3A, Paragraph 17).