to think Derbyshire police need to read the LAW and understand that you can't fine people when they are not breaking it

[chomalungma]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814

Surrounded by police, treated like a criminal for driving 5 miles to a beauty spot for a walk.

It is not illegal to drive to exercise.

@Unescorted

Public gardens are one of the things listed as being ok to pay for... reservoir car park does not appear on that list.

I would have expected it to be covered by 'countryside accessible to the public'

@atswim2birds

You can. But we all know that the point is not exercise. They aren't going for a run, they arent' even going for a walk. They are going to socialise and will shuffle about as they do it for cover. It's talked about endlessly on here.

So. Fucking. What.

@nocaloriesinchocolate

Derbyshire police have also been turning visitors away from Calke Abbey a National Trust Property. Including some who were traveling less than 10 miles from within the county to get there.

Similar at Elvaston Castle a council owned country house and park. In that case they were refusing entry to people who had crossed from a neighbouring borough within the county despite being on the doorstep.

I wonder if it's possible to have your garden classed as 'public' somehow, then you could walk there with a friend? Obviously I'm being facetious and am not one to actually even attempt to bend rules etc (too much of a goody goody), but it's an interesting thought.

In normal times I'd be jumping up and down about civil liberties, freedom and injustice. We're not in normal times though, are we

The difficulty here is that once these things have been taken away it's not easy to get them back, but never mind ... it'll doubtless appeal to those who seem to think China an example of "how to do things"

@Brefugee, the thing about "the lake" concerned the Blue Pool near Buxton, which many used for swimming. Trouble is it's hideously polluted, so black dye was out in it to reduce its appeal

[quote LowestEbb]@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows you're not even aware that an 'arrest record' doesn't exist, but you crack on[/quote]
But police have targets and IME that's all they seem to care about. It's about quick wins.

@Unescorted

Oholytights the night they were pulling people out of the snow on Long Hill there was a local woman who had gone missing having suffered a MH crisis. They had to prioritise pulling them out over the woman missing because one of the families had driven out with a small child on a day when snow had been forecast. Mountain rescue had to be called out before they had finished the search lower down just in case she was on the hills. I can see why D'shire police are a little quick to put people off.

I thought so too when I was told this.

"@Tavannach the point here is not whether or not they should have driven to go for a walk. It’s whether or not the police officers acted lawfully in issuing them a fine. They are separate points, and unless you fancy living in a police state, it is important that they remain such."

Exactly this.

For it to accessible it has to be free... so the countryside is OK but the car park which is owned by a Ltd company (Severn Trent Water) is not.

@fluufy

I can't believe people think laws are all absolute and police officers don't spend their days interpreting them? Is someone drunk and disorderly? Up to the cop who apprehends them. Is someone resisting arrest? Up to the cop. Are you driving without due care and attention? Could be, depending on how the cop who sees you interprets what you are doing.

What do you think happens with every law? The police interpret them, and decide how when and why to apply them, or not.

The GUIDANCE (not law) says stay local if you can. It's not a requirement therefore not fine-able.

@HappyTimeTunnelDinosaur interesting - there’s a big house near us with a footpath running straight through their back garden (understandably they hate it, especially now that there are so many more people using the footpath). Perhaps they could invite their friends to go for a walk back and forth while they sit on the patio and chat!

[quote Estreladebelem]@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows it is the law in Wales, so taking in consideration their username, I’d just assume they are not aware of the different laws in England.[/quote]
But considering Derbyshire is so very obviously in England I'm not sure why they claimed a Welsh law was relevant here

@GenderApostate19

I’m fucked then, I’d love pc plod to stop and question me, I’d wipe the floor with them, first I’d ask them why they can’t stop the maniacs doing 70mph in a 30 zone, overtaking on the wrong side of the road every morning at 7am. I’m at DD’s every weekday providing childcare, 7 miles away from my home in another county and I take DGS out for a walk most days, sometimes to a local beauty spot.

I’m sure you would. I’m embarrassed on your behalf.

The fine may not of been issued because it was not local, but because it was 2 people meeting up in a place that was not a public outdoor space as defined by the legislation

For it to accessible it has to be free I really don't see that accessible=free, plenty of accessible things involve payment.

I don't particularly have a strong opinion about this though, my personal concern is the fact that the issue here is 'local' and travelling for exercise - the latter is apparently allowed as long as it is 'local' - and 'local' is not defined by law, so this guideline is not enforceable by the police unless 'reasonably' breached, which 5 miles does not do, where as 100 miles does. That is the only way the police can enforce this guideline IMO.

In a country with a separation between executive, legislature and judiciary (like the UK), the police cannot enforce 'local' until the executive and legislature have defined 'local'

Police have targets and IME that's all they seem to care about. It's about quick wins

I wouldn't say it's all they care about, but the thing about targets is certainly true.
Anyone who doubts it could do with being here around the last week of the month, when many are out with their Gatsos to get the numbers up ... at least they were, but now Covid fines seem to be the bigger attraction, possibly because there are fewer folk on the road

I see the missing girl has been found safe and well.

That's really good news for her and her family, but less good for the good people of Derbyshire trying to find nice places to walk away from other people.

We had this in lockdown one, a desire to funnel everyone into the same areas and then complain there were too any people there.

Something does not have to be free to be accessible. In my nearest town, I have to pay for parking to get to the chemist, the opticuan, the dentist, a take-away. No free parking. Paid carparks or onstreet meters. And some of the out of town carparks, giving access to walks, are only free because it is winter (tourist area).

For this legislation it does... that is how it is defined in law for this purpose.

(Sorry just realised I am on a different thread about this - girl was missing in Derbyshire so would have been nice if police used resources finding her rather than hassling people for having so-called picnics)

Are Derbyshire the same force who said they were going to start checking people’s trolleys to ensure they were buying genuine essential items, or was that a different force?

@fluufy

And the standard of proof for criminal sanctions is "beyond reasonable doubt" . Not "on the interpretation of the police"

IN COURT. Not on the street. The individual officer decides at that point. If they get it wrong, thats for the charging officers/CPS/Courts etc to decide

They can't afford to "get it wrong". If I got arrested, even for doing something law abiding like these women did, I would lose my job. That's a real impact on someone and these trumped up little pricks need to only enforce arrests and fines where there is a clear breach of the law. Taking the personal view that the women shouldn't have had coffee cups or whatever and fining or arresting (if they refused the fine) is utterly unacceptable. But doesn't surprise me in the least. I firmly believe, even with the best officers, there's a culture problem of heavy handidness, abuse of power and misogyny in the police. The endless, endless stories, stats, videos, enquiries, allowing abusive men out to go murder their ex girlfriends (an ex girlfriend they arrested for wasting police time when she reported said abuser - and then DEFENDED this in her inquest!!!), cocking up evidence of an 11 month old baby who died from anal rape....it never ever ends. Yes, Not Every Copper - but enough that they're, as a class, a problem.

How I would love to report a historic rape I was victim of when I was six. 30 years on I have the bravery to tell my story and the one thing holding me back as that I don't, for a nanosecond, trust the police to do a good job or even believe me.

once these things have been taken away it's not easy to get them back

With a leader who believes in personal freedom to the extent that he doesn't brush his hair or keep his trousers on if he doesn't want to? Oh, we'll get them back. If not, you'll see me chained to the Downing Street railings Puzzledandpissedoff old unbranded wellies and no makeup, for the record, pp

Another important point - a chat while you exercise is as important for health - mental - as a walk or whatever is for health - physical. Let's not put people off looking after their mental health by having a go at them for needing a chat while keeping to the guidelines and spirit.

And don't think that any of them will turn on each other - they have each other's back to the bitter end so if there is a problem you're fucked

Buddytheelf apparently that was Northamptonshire: news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-police-backtrack-after-chief-threatened-to-search-shoppers-trolleys-11971269