to think Derbyshire police need to read the LAW and understand that you can't fine people when they are not breaking it

[chomalungma]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814

Surrounded by police, treated like a criminal for driving 5 miles to a beauty spot for a walk.

It is not illegal to drive to exercise.

Is it not? It uses “should”, which usually refers to the law, right?

You should minimise time spent outside your home, but you can leave your home to exercise. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.

Your local area is then defined as within your village, town or the part of city that you reside.

It wasn’t illegal in lockdown 1, it was guidance, but I’m not so sure this time.

I've just read the article, it says the legislation is guidance to stay within local area. to me that means not driving from derbyshire to wales or across county borders for a jolly. these were two people abiding by the rules out doing something to improve and maintain their mental health. i live near derbyshire and the police are always giving themselves a bad name for their heavy handed-ness

@DynamoKev

Kid up the road drives his SORN and MOT expired car to buy and smoke weed. Police couldn't be less interested.

My ex kept his car insurance and licence registered at my address drove around with no tax mot or insurance the local police did nothing he literally used to drive on the motorway up and down the country no one cared then he parked half a tyre on double yellows in Surrey? They crushed his car but he got away with it for over 12 months

And yes we all reported him giving details of his home address where he went every single week they CBA

BUT carry a hot drink on a walk and your busted

Blimey, that's closer than my nearest supermarket.

I really can't see the CPS taking this to court if they don't pay the fixed penalties, what would they charge them with - breaking made-up laws by the Police?

Is it not? It uses “should”, which usually refers to the law, right

MUST refers to the Law.

Here is the law.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/schedule/3A

One of the excuse is:

(c)to take exercise outside—
(i)alone,
(ii)with—
(aa)one or more members of their household, their linked household, or
(bb)where exercise is being taken as part of providing informal childcare for a child aged 13 or under, one or more members of their linked childcare household, or

(iii)in a public outdoor place, with one other person who is not a member of their household, their linked household or their linked childcare household,

actually i suppose the issue is that they travelled from leicestershire to derbyshire... perhaps the reservoir is more that 5 miles from the county boundary...

maybe the 5 mile from boundary thing is scotland only...

It's must, isn't it. Not should.

Sorry... I'm not coping fantastically this week

Cross posts @chomalungma, but thanks, that hit me just after I posted.

I’d fine them for the Hunter Wellies, orange make up and Starbucks cliché combo 🤣 they look like getting their photos in the paper will the highlight of their lockdown.

If they live 5 miles away though, I’d definitely class that as local (whilst travelling is allowed) - so I disagree with the police.

The failure to deal with Cummings has had such a negative long term impact. How can anyone take this seriously? 😡

It’s concerning that their official position is that it’s up to the police to determine what’s reasonable in law (it isn’t) but as the definition of local is in the legislation I agree with @SendMeHome

@SendMeHome

Is it not? It uses “should”, which usually refers to the law, right?

You should minimise time spent outside your home, but you can leave your home to exercise. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.

Your local area is then defined as within your village, town or the part of city that you reside.

It wasn’t illegal in lockdown 1, it was guidance, but I’m not so sure this time.

This is not covered in the Regulations. It is only in the guidance therefore not law.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/schedule/3A/paragraph/2

The law says:
"Exceptions: leaving home
2.—(1) These are the exceptions referred to in paragraph 1.

Exception 1: leaving home necessary for certain purposes
(2) Exception 1 is that it is reasonably necessary for the person concerned (“P”) to leave or be outside the place where P is living (“P’s home”)—

(a)to buy goods or obtain services from any business or service listed in [F2paragraph 17]...

(c)to take exercise outside—
(i)alone,
(ii)with—
(aa)one or more members of their household, their linked household, or
(bb)where exercise is being taken as part of providing informal childcare for a child aged 13 or under, one or more members of their linked childcare household, or
(iii)in a public outdoor place, with one other person who is not a member of their household, their linked household or their linked childcare household"

@countrygirl99

Blimey, that's closer than my nearest supermarket.

Same!

Sorry @chomalungma

@SendMeHome

Is it not? It uses “should”, which usually refers to the law, right?

You should minimise time spent outside your home, but you can leave your home to exercise. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.

Your local area is then defined as within your village, town or the part of city that you reside.

It wasn’t illegal in lockdown 1, it was guidance, but I’m not so sure this time.

Should has a different meaning to shall or must in legal text and guidance has a different status to primary legislation.

The law is set out in the regulations and guidance is a suggested way of complying with the law, but by no means the only way. If you are following the guidance, you are normally complying with the law, but you may be able to comply with the law in a different way.

It is telling that a barrister quotes in the BBC article 'There is no law against travelling to exercise. The guidance is not legally binding and the police have no power to enforce it unless it is reflected in the lockdown regulations which in this case it is not'

I think those two women acted lawfully and if it was me, I would be writing a polite letter telling them why I did not intend to pay their fine.

I’d refuse details. Let them arrest me. It would go precisely nowhere with CPS.

And that’s bollocks about a drink being a picnic. If a drink is a picnic then a beer is a substantial meal, isn’t it?

Quote of the day. Quite

Derbyshire police were absolute twats the first time as well. Don't try to report an actual crime though.

Unbelievable. Why were there so many police officers in different vehicles in the area. That probably needs to be explained by the constabulary.

@iamruth

Seriously, it’s not difficult to just stick to the rules. Is it Essential to drive to walk in that specific place? Do their legs not work out of their front doors? Exactly. Compo faces right there. Give the police/nhs/teachers a break and worry about yourself

Well said @iamruth

Is the issue that, despite it being 5 miles, they live in Leicestershire and travelled to Derbyshire? Given that when we’re in Tiers, they are managed frequently by county boundaries, it would make sense for the police to take a general position that crossing a county border, whether the distance, went beyond “local”. But in that case - the correct action would be a polite explanation. I do know that would mean you could travel 50 miles in one direction but not 5 in another... but using county boundaries would always create that situation. I’m not saying that I would agree with that - I’d prefer a X mile radius. But it would make sense if you wanted arbitrary rules and consistency between lockdown and tiers.

If my local area is limited to less than 5 miles then I have no supermarket, doctors, hospitals, secondary schools etc, never mind somewhere to have a safe walk

Cross posted with a few others.

Potentially outing but I live near to Foremark. During the last lockdown the road near the reservoir was plagued by bad parking. There isn't a car park as such, so people park on the grass verges long the road, double parking during the summer. After accidents and overcrowding the police had to get involved and move people away. As a National Forest area there are plenty of open spaces around Ashby that the ladies could have walked around. Ashby is hardly a concrete jungle.

"but mummy said don't kick the table. I'm not kicking the table I'm kicking the chair so it's allowed"