To think accountancy isn't a "keyworker" job?

[hannabull]

One of the parents at school is a self employed accountant who works from home, but sending kids into school. The other parent works out of the home (not a key worker) how is this allowed? Claims to be an essential worker (doesn't work for the nhs or anything, just accounts for small businesses)

By the way not all employers are acting irresponsibly or unreasonably.
We are being very proactive with our employees to allow flexible arrangements, including in some cases allowing people to work fewer hours than they are paid for. Last time round we furloughed approx 1/3 of the workforce (mostly sales) - this time we aren’t furloughing anyone but allowing fewer hours to be worked if that is needed. I have two lawyers on my team who have primary aged kids at home and we have allowed them to drop their hours (but not their pay) and we are outsourcing the work to external law firms. Appreciate not everyone has such an understanding employer. Probably helps that 50% of our leadership team are women and that all our leadership team have young kids. We have also donated 200 laptops to local schools in the area.

What about all the forecasting and cash flow analysis required to keep businesses solvent and staff in employment. Never been a more important time.

Using a management accountancy analysis, presumably all paid jobs are essential otherwise they wouldn’t be paid.

I think so. I think 2 FT parents WFH with a pre schooler would be incredibly hard and probably a risk to the safety of the child.

So you accept that for a 4 yr old it's ok but people wfh & sending a 5 yr old is wrong?

From what I have seen from the first week of home schooling the expectations are set at a relatively low bar in terms of the work being set

I don't know what your school is like pre Covid.
My dc go to an excellent state school.
They log on at 9am have discussions with teachers/other pupils & go through all the work & talk about it with the usual breaks until about 2.15.
Then we log off & through anything not completed, if time do the challenges plus read a book which takes us to about 4pm.
Same for the kids in school who have support staff guiding them.

@InTheSnow

A massive game changer for accountants would be to extend the FILING deadlines for 2-3 months.

Businesses and taxpayers can easily (and should) still make estimated tax payments, but by pushing the filing deadline back there would be less children in school that do not really need to be there.

This has not apparently registered with Mr Sunak it seems...

Agree They extended stock exchange reporting deadlines, AGM arrangements, companies house filing deadlines, gender pay gap and modern slavery deadlines last time (and still effective) which has helped the larger companies.

An extension to self assessment deadlines would be a very sensible move

If you are unhappy with the provision phone up & talk to your school.

Agree about changing the filing dates.

I am persona non grata with some of our accountants and HR teams after there was a restriction on use of some of our systems in late March/early April because of financial year end, to help them. I pointed out that year end and the tax year end had been the same since the mid-18th century so that they had been given 250 years warning!

@InTheSnow

A massive game changer for accountants would be to extend the FILING deadlines for 2-3 months.

Businesses and taxpayers can easily (and should) still make estimated tax payments, but by pushing the filing deadline back there would be less children in school that do not really need to be there.

This has not apparently registered with Mr Sunak it seems...

Accountants and their professional bodies have been asking for deadline extensions, but HMRC and Sunak have stuck their fingers in their ears chanting "la la la". They just won't listen. We'll probably get a deadline extension on 30 January when it's too late to have any benefit.

Our school is one of the top state schools in the country. Think they have to pitch the work at a level that the whole class can do, whereas in normal class times they would differentiate and so the higher achieving DC would be given stretch work. They will have to fill their time with reading and times table rockstars etc

I think most 5 yo kids would be capable of watching tv unaccompanied for a while. Much less likely to jump down the stairs than a 2 or 3 year old. But get your point. Clearly the govt think they are more self sufficient given than staffing ratios fall from 1:8 to 1:30 when they join school!

Oh I am totally happy with the provision, they have got the balance completely right.

I think most 5 yo kids would be capable of watching tv unaccompanied for a while

Of course.

But if the reality is that they have to be parked in front of a screen for (say) six hours a day, while their parents concentrate on the job they’re paid to do - and this lasts for months - does that sound like an acceptable ‘new norm’ to you?

Clearly not ideal but safe. The question was about safety and why nurseries opening vs schools

5 year old children can catch up on their education. Most European counties do not start school until 6. As I have said many times, the immediate priority right now is stopping transmission to avoid overwhelming the nhs and preventing unnecessary deaths

Clearly not ideal but safe. The question was about safety and why nurseries opening vs schools

I’m asking whether it’s a reasonable thing to do to five year olds?

5 year old children can catch up on their education.

Whether or not that’s true (and I don’t agree) what about his broader emotional, social, physical development?

Sat by himself, for the vast proportion of the working day, staring at a screen. For months. Think about that.

The question was about safety and why nurseries opening vs schools

I just asked because I don't know if transmission is higher for 4 yr olds vs 5 olds.

For the next few weeks, yes I do
We need to do the best thing for the situation we are in right now, where the priority is limiting transmission and preventing deaths. The more children in school, the longer this will take.

Bojo has already said schools will be the first to reopen. Last time the priority year groups for reopening were reception and y1 for this very reason and that will be what happens again.

For the next few weeks, yes I do

Every one of us knows this won’t be ‘a few weeks’. Let’s not be disingenuous.

If it’s months? Next September (which categorically has not been ruled out)?

That okay then? 5 year olds ignored in front of screens for most of their parents working hours? You can get behind that?

Let’s agree to disagree.
I believe the vaccine programme will be rolled out and that schools will reopen after Feb half term to reception and y1. And that right now, the priority above all else is to reduce transmission.

And if it goes on for longer then will need to be reassessed. At least the January tax returns will be done by then though eh.

I'm a sole trader. I've been limping along with zero financial help since March. I'm on my knees. I've not been eligible for any help despite paying higher rate tax since I left uni 25 years ago.

I'm required to pay tax and I can't be charged that tax without submitting my tax return which requires an accountant.

If I don't pay my tax be end January I get fined. My tax pays for the NHS, education and other public services.

So how is my accountant not essential?

@Chaotic45

I'm a sole trader. I've been limping along with zero financial help since March. I'm on my knees. I've not been eligible for any help despite paying higher rate tax since I left uni 25 years ago.

I'm required to pay tax and I can't be charged that tax without submitting my tax return which requires an accountant.

If I don't pay my tax be end January I get fined. My tax pays for the NHS, education and other public services.

So how is my accountant not essential?

You can always make a payment on account. With an extension for filing, it's not totally beyond the realms of possibility to gauge what you might owe and make provisional payments. It does not need to be exact and you and your accountant need not be fretting at 3am trying to work out every last penny for a deadline that is just artificial. The whole world is in a vacuous state at the moment.

@TheKeatingFive

I think most 5 yo kids would be capable of watching tv unaccompanied for a while

Of course.

But if the reality is that they have to be parked in front of a screen for (say) six hours a day, while their parents concentrate on the job they’re paid to do - and this lasts for months - does that sound like an acceptable ‘new norm’ to you?

Surely any reasonable client would recognise this can't be done and be flexible with their meetings around home schooling. I imagine no one will expect you to work like you usually would. So work it around home schooling. I think it can be done, but is just very difficult, so parents take the easier option to send to KW club. I expect no one who works is working as they normally would.

I am actually under the KW criteria and considered sending my dcs into KW club. As life you be easier if I could condense all my sessions into one day and send dcs into school that day. I could work completely uninterrupted and get all my work done in one day (granted I am lucky to be PT) then free to home schooling during daytime school hours the rest of the week. But I have chosen not to so I am not juggling work and study around home schooling. It makes life harder, but it's the right thing to do and others shouldn't go for the easy option just because they can.

If Chaotic45's business is limping along, they don't have funds to just ask HMRC to hold onto forever -- they need to pay only what they owe & not a penny more. Accountants can help spot other ways to reduce tax bill too.

Thank job @infinitediamonds and @ragged. I just want to get them sorted and submitted with the minimum of hassle.

I will have a tax Bill plus NI to pay, and need my accountant to help with this.

@Xenia

If perhaps even most children are critical/key worker children then surely the solution is a school operates as normally and the very few without a parent who is can watch the lesson live streams where that is possible. If the child has no computer or wifi the state has now said they can go to school. In this way we might be able in a sense by the backdoor but lawfully get almost all children back to school and schools working as normal.

It's attitudes like this that are going to prolong the lockdown for perpetuity at great inconvenience to everyone else, just to satisfy childcare ; schools are there for education and not childcare.

@studychick81

I hope Boris does a u turn and changes the criteria to two key workers or single parent kw for every school and those taking the piss get their kids sent home.

I hope so too otherwise we are at risk of having absent/ ill staff and prolonging the lockdown.

Guardian reporting that there has been a u turn about the criteria for KW clubs. I hope that schools are strong enough to say no to parents and send kids home.

All the nurses and health care professionals that I know are the secondary earners within their households.

The reality is that if a school place wasn't available for their child they would not go to work. Their partner / husband wouldn't step in and provide childcare because as a family unit they couldn't cope without the primary salary.

It's wrong on many levels but that's the way it is.