To think accountancy isn't a "keyworker" job?

[hannabull]

One of the parents at school is a self employed accountant who works from home, but sending kids into school. The other parent works out of the home (not a key worker) how is this allowed? Claims to be an essential worker (doesn't work for the nhs or anything, just accounts for small businesses)

I think the vulnerable and key worker children should be in school but the list of key workers is obviously too wide. The alternative is to open schools up again, bubbles are sent home regularly and the transmission rate continues to rise with 1,000 dead each day.
One of our local schools has already had to send home a group of key worker children as there are three Covid cases.
There are no answers or winners - just lots of people stressed and struggling.

I hope Boris does a u turn and changes the criteria to two key workers or single parent kw for every school and those taking the piss get their kids sent home.

I don’t have children but I am an accountant in a small firm with 6 staff. We have a lot of work to do before the Jan deadline, clients calling for advice on grants, furlough, Brexit, changes to VAT rules for CIS and everything else that comes with working is a small firm of accountants.

I’ve already worked 55 hours this week, we are all working today and 2 of us working tomorrow. It wouldn’t be possible for me to do my job during January whilst supervising or educating children. I spend 40% of my 9-5pm hours on calls/meetings with clients in January. One of my colleagues has her 83 year old gran looking after her kids whilst her kids teacher (who is WFH delivering online classes sends her kids in). This is where the unfairness is, once we are past January things will change for us, but if the government aren’t willing to change the deadlines and clients don’t provide the info (and before I get jumped on the clients have all had 8 calls and 3 emails in the past 3 months asking for it) we are pretty key to ensuring the economy, small businesses and tax payments continue during January.

IMO it isn’t about what job you do it’s about where it’s done and what it entails. If you can work at home and you can work flexible hours then you can supervise your kids, this applies to anyone key worker or not. If you can’t you should be able to send your kids in.

I think the vulnerable and key worker children should be in school but the list of key workers is obviously too wide.

I think some of the financial services roles are questionable however it's unrealistic to expect the government to list every single job role & then some will depend on industry eg accountant in Big 4 can wfh, school finance not necessarily.

but which full time jobs are suitable for working and home schooling - not really very many?! That's the point and that's why people who are doing it are so pssed off at those taking the pss.

Speaking to a friend and her husband has been working till 2/3am every night this week to manage the situation. Obviously not ideal or sustainable, but they are having to do that because that's the advice!

All this talk of envuy - yes too right, i'm pretty *cked of tbh that we're struggling to work and home school, all locked up together day and night, yet other poeple are just continuing as normal. Surely you see that, and might be a tad annoyed if the shoe was on the other foot?

i really hope the Government sorts it out and makes school only provide places to those who really need it. At the moment - schools arent shut at all.

personally i think schools should be open for everyone - shutting them is bonkers! But if they're not then they need to be properly shut to all but a few (like first lock down!)

Maybe if the advice is revised and all those Key workers currently in school are sent back at home, some of those saying "oooh you're just jealous" might have a slight inkling of how difficult it is and why feelings are running so high!

Just a thought.....

Also from the tone of some messages it sounds very much like some people are getting a bit worried they might actually soon be in the same boat as all us moaning minnies and having to juggle it all!!!

To be clear, my objection is not “jealousy”. As hard as it is to have them at home, school is the last place I want to send my kids. I would rather they did not learning at all than send them in to increase the risk. The reason I object is because if we don’t limit transmission then hospitals will be overwhelmed and more people will die. Bubbles will burst and prevent doctors from going to work. And lockdown will go on a lot longer.

Interestingly the gov guidance was updated yesterday

“ 8 January 2021
Updated 'Critical workers' section to clarify that parents and carers who are critical workers should keep their children at home if they can.”
www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-maintaining-educational-provision#history

The guidance also says parents are entitled to a place even if wfh as they also want people to stay home.

@ceeveebee Do you object to preschools & nurseries remaining open?

More people wfh & less dc in schools will reduce the R rate.

Even if only 50% but I think that will unusual on a national level.

@studychick81 no accountants are not special, they are facing the same issues man others are. The government though class them as key workers. People are just trying to explain how the are struggling, but you choose to see that as "special" and suggest it's as easy as working late etc. but you missed the point in my post. I am already getting up early and working late and working weekends. I simply don't have any more time to squeeze in homeschooling. I work part time normally, but have been working 50/60 hours since late November. My reality is that my eldest would have been doing homeschooling with my youngest. He would have been trying to teach his brother whilst learning himself. We had actually booked a tutor for one 2 hour session per week to help. But the school offered us a place, as we meet the criteria. No lying. No exaggeration etc. The school had a space and we were offered it. If that means I can do my job, and my children are being supervised while doing their online learning, then why would I not take up that space? Just because some random on the internet thinks I think I'm special? No, I live in the real world.

Here, both parents need to be key workers, and we both meet the criteria set by the (Scottish) government.

It's not just the January deadline, although that's what makes this the busiest time. Corporate tax doesn't have a fixed deadline like that - deadline is 9 months after year end for paying the tax and 12 months after the year end to lodge the return, so there are deadlines every month as well as paye and vat deadlines. Bookkeeping is done on an ongoing basis. It's just January has the added pressure of self assessment returns.

The thing that many are trying to ignore is many businesses are cogs in a wheel - they maybe don't do surgery etc, but their existence is vital to the provision of that service. It's why the government really didn't want to close primary schools. They understood the issues that would cause. It's also why Hmrc are resistant to changing the deadline - they know that every penny in tax is needed right now. In all my years working in tax I have not seen Hmrc being this aggressive in collecting tax. Debt collectors are making a pretty penny from Hmrc at the moment.

You don't need to agree that accountancy is considered key work. The government says it is. Many more businesses would have gone under without the assistance of their accountants. They need assistance with the government grants and furlough.

All this talk of envuy - yes too right, i'm pretty cked of tbh that we're struggling to work and home school, all locked up together day and night, yet other poeple are just continuing as normal. Surely you see that, and might be a tad annoyed if the shoe was on the other foot?*

I don't think it's either or. I could juggle both last time but can't now. Yes I envied those who were furloughed but I wasn't annoyed at them, I think it was a good idea.

I think there is more of a difficulty with nursery and preschool. It’s clearly a lot harder to work with a toddler in the house. Perhaps due to childcare ratios, ie 3 babies to 1 carer etc, and if staff are allowed PPE, there is a lower risk of transmission

At a minimum I think they should be restricted to vulnerable children and the children of working parents (ie if there is a SAHP, or someone who has been furloughed, or a part time worker then they should not be sending their kids).

@wonderup I agree, I used to work for big4 before joining my current small firm. Whilst it would have been tough WFH would be easier and there are barely any client calls so you could work flexibly. We are all still office based as have paper files and desktops linked to server.

I have an ex-colleague at big4 who is doing 7am-1pm 6 days a a week and DW is doing 1pm - 7pm 6 days a week so they can cover childcare.

One of my current colleagues is in a childcare bubble and the 4 parents are all taking it in turns to have kids - she does Sunday so the other parents are all working Sunday whilst she has the kids. Once Jan us out of the way she is doing 2 days a week to make up and we will maybe furlough her but it would have been a lot easier if kids were in school! But does show if you have flexibility it is possible to work round kids.

It’s really upsetting seeing colleagues go through this and really struggling when others in same boat aren’t and how it varies so much school to school. My colleague cried when she told me her gran had her kids, putting her at risk, because the school wouldn’t take them as they don’t consider accountants to be key workers. When she found out her DDs teacher was WFH and sending her kids in she was livid.

This is where the animosity and jealousy arises because rules are inconsistently applied.

Our school has just sent another email out with a lot of detail of the rocketing rates in the area, the fact that several teachers and TAs are now ill with COVID, and the very strong discouragement against sending kids in if there is any alternative at all (we are being asked not to send kids if there is a parent WFH even if that parent is a KW)
They are also saying that they are prioritising places to infants over juniors, as they believe that juniors should be able to be self led at home using the online provision.

I would rather they did not learning at all than send them in to increase the risk.

No learning might be a more realistic goal if the government want to contain risk. If parents think that their children are behind and missing out, they will feel that they are letting their children down if they don’t send their children to school when it seems that everyone else is.

I think that during the first lock down the government benefitted from the almost universal buy in and the assumption that it would be short term. People did more than they were asked.

Now employers are less accommodating and for many reasons people are more likely to do the maximum that they can within the law. Pragmatically, the government will only get a March 2020 style lock down with more restrictions. They need to decide what they want.

At a minimum I think they should be restricted to vulnerable children and the children of working parents (ie if there is a SAHP, or someone who has been furloughed, or a part time worker then they should not be sending their kids).

So full time wfh parents should be able to use that provision?
Is it proven that it reduces transmission?
Personally I think it's very difficult to work & home educate a 5 or 6yo. I agree that infants need priority & I expect attendance in the older yrs of primary will be much lower.

I think you need to consider the different types of accountants and what they are doing. Financial accountants and management accountants do very different roles for example. It also depends on where we are in the accounting cycle and what deadlines are coming up.
Done if the work is absolutely key and critical and requires concentration. Actually right now in January is probably the most critical period of the year. Other times the work can easily be done around kids, you can dip in and out as and when in reality.
But it depends as in all things. It's a huge variety of tasks.......

Our school has just sent another email out with a lot of detail of the rocketing rates in the area, the fact that several teachers and TAs are now ill with COVID,

There is huge variety. I'm in Tier 4 London, 2 cases & only 1 class required to self isolate & this was in Oct.
Attendance is much lower now too.

We are all still office based as have paper files and desktops linked to server.

Yep others forgot this is the case. I know schools that don't even use excel & have purchase ledger books.

I think so. I think 2 FT parents WFH with a pre schooler would be incredibly hard and probably a risk to the safety of the child.

From what I have seen from the first week of home schooling the expectations are set at a relatively low bar in terms of the work being set ie yesterday my Y4 kids had 3 pages of a maths book which my DC did in 15 mins (was supposed to be a 1 hour lesson), writing one side of A4 in English (again supposed to take 1 hour), drawing a picture in the afternoon, and then “Golden time” ie do what you want for an hour. Plus 3 1/2 video calls to run through answers and have a general chat.

In fact I could probably get through the whole week’s work with them in one weekend day if I felt like being mean!!

@Pip001

I don’t have children but I am an accountant in a small firm with 6 staff. We have a lot of work to do before the Jan deadline, clients calling for advice on grants, furlough, Brexit, changes to VAT rules for CIS and everything else that comes with working is a small firm of accountants.

I’ve already worked 55 hours this week, we are all working today and 2 of us working tomorrow. It wouldn’t be possible for me to do my job during January whilst supervising or educating children. I spend 40% of my 9-5pm hours on calls/meetings with clients in January. One of my colleagues has her 83 year old gran looking after her kids whilst her kids teacher (who is WFH delivering online classes sends her kids in). This is where the unfairness is, once we are past January things will change for us, but if the government aren’t willing to change the deadlines and clients don’t provide the info (and before I get jumped on the clients have all had 8 calls and 3 emails in the past 3 months asking for it) we are pretty key to ensuring the economy, small businesses and tax payments continue during January.

IMO it isn’t about what job you do it’s about where it’s done and what it entails. If you can work at home and you can work flexible hours then you can supervise your kids, this applies to anyone key worker or not. If you can’t you should be able to send your kids in.

I Imagine many others are also in this situation, how busy you are doesn't trump others. I imagine most FT jobs are impossible to do whilst homeschooling but those people aren't sending their dcs to school. I imagine plenty of people are working over the weekends to make up the hours. I imagine many jobs involve client calls all day but my point is other people are getting on with it regardless. It does not mean you need a KW place.

Most of these comments are about financial accounts. What about all the forecasting and cash flow analysis required to keep businesses solvent and staff in employment. Never been a more important time. Plans have gone out if the window. Business owners need their accountants to scenario plan and give worst best case examples . This needs doing fast! Who to furlough? Can we afford new staff? Did we need redundancies? Can we afford the repayments on the loan? The list is endless and is critical.
Management accountants are more than number crunchers and form fillers.

A massive game changer for accountants would be to extend the FILING deadlines for 2-3 months.

Businesses and taxpayers can easily (and should) still make estimated tax payments, but by pushing the filing deadline back there would be less children in school that do not really need to be there.

This has not apparently registered with Mr Sunak it seems...