Lodgers - AIBU or may I choose?

[Tarquinthecat]

Background: I'm a few decades old and have had a lifetime of suffering an unpredictable, insecure home life: chaotic childhood at the whim of an alcoholic father; first LT partner would become unpredictable and sometimes violent when drunk, and I suffered long term gaslighting by another LT partner.

Obviously all this has left me feeling emotionally bruised, wary and a little anxious, and with a deep need for people I live with to be stable and predictable.

Now I have a place of my own I can create an environment in which I feel safe. I have a couple of spare rooms so I have turned my home into a house share, mainly for company but also to help with the bills.

My number one concern is to have a really safe home environment where I need never be scared or wary of a lodger. Therefore I can only accept lodgers who don't make me feel frightened, vulnerable, or at the mercy of any unpredictable, weird, scary behaviour on their part.

To this end I advertised on a major website, stating that I am determined to have a safe, happy and drama-free house-share, and therefore will not accept applications from anyone who is dependent on alcohol, behaviour--changing or recreational drugs, or who has any kind of mental health issue which adversely affects their behaviour.

My ad was stopped by the site owners. They said that under the Disability Act it is illegal for me to discriminate against people with mental health issues. They forced me to remove the clause or they would not post the ad.

During this covid thing I want to keep the number of personal interviews to the barest minimum, only meeting in person after I have "interviewed" them and weeded them out via the site's messaging system. However, according to the site's owners, I can't ask people those questions that to me are really crucial. I'd have to meet them in person and ask them this question face to face in my home, where the site owners cannot monitor what I am asking (although according to them, I am not allowed to turn people down for this reason.)

Surely as a lone, fairly elderly female I am entitled to have a boundary like this to ensure my own peace of mind and security?

AIBU?

Yes, the site owners are correct.
No, I have a right to refuse whoever I want

It's a private home & you're seeking lodgers - I don't think that the Disability Discrimination Act applies as it might to, for example, an estate agent or commercial landlady.

Can you adjust the advert, and interview potential lodgers via Zoom first of all? Then get it down to a shortlist for a home interview, so they can see your house & the room etc, as well as you meet them in person.

Maybe start with one lodger? Good luck I don't think you're doing anything wrong by thinking carefuly about the kind of characteristics you want/don't want in a person who shares your domestic space.

Maybe - so that you're not discriminating against mental illness specifically - think about it not in terms of specific illnesses or conditions, but the personal attributes you want or don't want in a lodger. So it might be that you don't want someone who has erratic hours of sleeping/awakeness, or you want someone who is able to keep their personal hygiene up to the mark, or that you don't want someone who is messy or hoards.

And so on.

I think somebody could check all the boxes on your list and still be toxic for you to live with.

If you want to go ahead, I would have very clear boundaries and expectations then just really follow your gut.

As a landlord of lodgers you are well supported in terms of kicking them out of it doesn’t go well.

I’m on my second lodger. First was an angel. Kept the place cleaner than I do. Never made noise or mess. Really sweet and friendly. Moved away for her job but we are still good friends.

My current lodger is very nice too, a bit less accommodating but I have to let that stuff go when I think of the money they’re paying me each month

Realistically people who are predatory or abusive or looking to walk over your boundaries, are unlikely to be honest about a question "have you ever had a mental health condition?"

Predators and abusers never consider themselves to be sick, because they don't acknowledge that they are the ones with the problem.

Putting "no one who's had mental health problems" could act as a red flag for a potential abuser signifying that the person who posted the ad is potentially vulnerable.

You cannot say those things. You can choose to accept or reject individual people as lodgers, based on how you feel about them.

You don't appear to have given any thought to the way you come across to others - which would ring massive alarm bells to me, were I a potential lodger - despite caring so very much how they come across to you. maybe try imagining your perfect lodger and putting yourself in their shoes. What would you want to read in an advert? What would make you feel welcome, a good fit and attract you to that house?

You need to realise that expecting people to provide company for you is a big demand. Enjoying the feeling of having a full house, having other people living their lives around you, is one thing. Imagining that they will be the BFF or sister you never had but dreamed of, magically filling a personal and social hole in your life, is quite another. Lodgers are not performing monkeys, courtiers or carers.

Realistically people who are predatory or abusive or looking to walk over your boundaries, are unlikely to be honest about a question "have you ever had a mental health condition?"

Exactly this. If you’re so cautious about your home being a safe space, opening that up to strangers is never, ever going to work well.

People could present themselves as the perfect package but the reality could be dangerous for you, and honestly even if the lodged is ideal it could be super stressful for them not knowing what will “trigger” you. For example, out of covid could they have a boozy night out? Then coming home drunk and slurring words could make you on edge and defensive. I would strongly encourage you get rid of this idea and find any other way to get the company you’re looking for.

I agree with you - and though the depressed and anxious need to live somewhere, it wouldn't be in my house!
But I think lodgers would be sheer hell so unless you're on your uppers, I really wouldn't. It's not their job to provide with you with company (and from what you've said, I wouldn't want you as either a lodger or a landlady. Sorry. But why do you expect people to live with your mental problems when you won't tolerate theirs?))

From extensive experience having lodgers myself, I can say that even if you interviewed them in person, you just simply cannot tell for sure that you'll have no problems with living them once they're in. Same with applications. It's really just a best guess then down to luck. I would guess this probably applies to those with any mental health issues too - they could still be lovely people to live with, and equally, those without those issues could be nightmares.

Obviously go with your gut feel, but it is REALLY hard to find good ones, at least in our experience...although everyone has different criteria for good so you might find it different!

In terms of what you can officially ask for on your advert, I believe you can specify a gender, but that's about it. When it comes to you choosing who to respond to/invite to move in, obviously that's down to you, although I really would suggest you bear the above in mind and don't assume that if you get someone without mental health issues that you will be fine. Good luck!

You cant specify those things, but you could ask for character references and landlords previous references.

It sounds like your home is very important to you in terms of feeling safe/ stable. Having lodgers or sharing houses comes with different opinions/ expectations about what is acceptable and there will always be annoyances when you're sharing space like this (more so in a lodger situation when it's your house, I think). They won't necessarily want to be your friend or have the level of interaction you're hoping for, and you have to allow them some peace and quiet and privacy and reasonable use of shared facilities and be flexible. It sounds like having a lodger is not really right for you.

If you're intent on taking lodgers for the company (this does seem odd; I've lodged a number of times and never really hung out with my landlords) but are specific about who/what that lodger is then perhaps a huge well-known site isn't the way forward?

Maybe you'd be better to ask around with friends, neighbours, friends of friends, maybe through a small local shop, community centre or church notice board? Make it known you've got the space to rent out but without inviting literally any stranger on the internet to apply?

I lodged in a couple of places when I was younger that would only ever have taken a professional single female (they were both homes with a single mum and young kids) but couldn't be that discriminatory in advertising. I found them both through word of mouth.

You cant discriminate against people with depression

Of course she can. If she doesn't want people with unstable moods in her house, that entirely up to her.

Your initial ad was discriminatory and the site owner was right to point it out. The reality is you can choose, but there are certain things it's not ok to ask. People are also not likely to tell you the truth about their private health issues or illegal activities, making some questions pointless.

Honestly, I really dont think you sound as though having a lodger is right for you.

If I were you I would not be having strangers living in my home!! Maybe explore the option of having a friend or family member move in but not someone random.

Goodness!

Why would you possibly put that in an advert. You can have whatever criteria you want but who is possibly going to admit to the things you’ve listed. You are just going to get weirdos who think you are vulnerable and take advantage. I am sorry but I really don’t think you are cut out for this!

What's wrong with house-sharing for company?

People marry/cohabit for company!

People whose top priority is a quiet, stable home life do not invite strangers to live in their home for company.

It doesn't sound like having a lodger is for you, OP.

What if you get a nice, stable, quiet lodger and they go through something difficult and develop depression - will you kick them out? How long are they allowed to be mentally ill for before it's unacceptable? What classes as mentally ill?

I have anxiety and depression, and I'd be a model lodger - I keep myself to myself, I'm tidy, and thanks to my medication I'm stable. But I have bad days where I don't want to speak to anyone - would that pass? My sister, who has no mental illness, is a hideous slob who has a tendency to stay up late listening to music and is an absolute shit to live with, but she'd come across brilliantly in a housesharing 'interview', would that be okay?
I houseshared with a woman who wasn't mentally ill, but did make our lives a misery via passive aggression and horrible comments in the house, to the point I ended up leaving 2 days before Christmas. Mental health is not a guarantee of a good housemate.

If you don't want uncertainty and confusion, don't invite other people to come and live in your house. You cannot guarantee that they will be good housemates (or good people generally) just because they're not alcoholics or not mentally ill.

Don't invite a lodger in unless you're prepared to deal with humans being human, or without telling them the exact boundaries of behaviour you're prepared to accept and what you'd do if they were to breach those boundaries. I think you'll find telling a lodger 'I don't want someone who's mentally ill and if you were to appear that way in my opinion, I'd ask you to move out' will be that appealing, to be honest. Nor would 'I don't want an alcoholic, and if I spot you having two glasses of wine in one evening I'll be watching you like a hawk because of my own trauma'.

You are perfectly entitled to feel the way you feel. I get it - I have a similar issue with people who are drinkers, or people who raise their voices, due to my own experiences. But that's why as soon as I could afford not to, I moved into my own place. You cannot legislate for other human behaviour and health.

Is it a house-share, or would they be your lodgers? Those are not the same thing.

People get married for company, yes. They choose someone on the basis of wanting to provide company for each other. That is not the case with lodgers.

A lodger wants a decent place to live, with suitable amenities, close to their workplace etc, at a reasonable price. It will be important to them that the landlord is someone they can tolerate. So convenience and price - of the house and room - are their main criteria.

Like you, their personal criteria will be more about the landlord not being crazy, scary or annoying, or anything intrusive that will get in the way of them living their lives. You're both looking for an absence of negatives. Neither of you is 'looking for company' because you're not using a dating website.

If you still think you want a lodger, there is a website specially for people wanting weekday-only lodgers, typically people who live in one place but work in another. That sort of part-time, busy, working lodger might be ideal for you.

You need to get very good at interviewing. Ask them about the worst problem they've encountered living with someone. Ask them about their sleep habits. Ask about how comfortable they are with a cleaning rota. Ask how they deal with conflict. Ask, ask and ask again. Then really listen to the answers. Then check references.

Companies run psycho metrics all the time to weed out people with mental health issues. It's perfectly legal to do. It's just done to get the right "fit".

Of course she can. If she doesn't want people with unstable moods in her house, that entirely up to her

Of course she can't @ElizaLaLa for the legal reasons given multiple times upthread.

I dont think having lodgers is right for you op. Im leaving my current digs as landlady rummaged thriugh bins, googled addrese, found thry were from ann summers and jad a really nasty go at me stating she felt 'uncomfortable in her own home'.

I am also an addict. I was hooked on pain pills and am now in recovery. Ive never smoked in my life, never commited crime, personal hygiene is spot on and i work in probation. Dependent om drugs means nothing - no onr except a friend and NA members kbow about me. Would that be ok?

I am on sertraline for anxiety. Mostly i am fine however i need to maintain boundaries and sometimes come home and not speal to anyone. Would thst be ok?

I thibk with your history and vulnerability yoy would be better served addressing these through counselling before having a lodger.

My landlady told me shed had a bad experience so she didnt feel safe with parcels being delivered. I feel awful for her of course - but that diesnt make it ok to police my parcels, insuinuate im barmy , ask if i pay for sex and make me feel anxious. I have my stuff ahe she has hers. She suould deal with hers befire getting lodgers.
Your experience doesn't just impact you . It also affects your thinking and approach to things- and it isnt good to present that on other people as.it could make them uncomfortable. Say you say no addicts but an ex addict moves in. Say they go to AA - may they stress about putting a keyring on their keys or a leaflet in the bin?
Say someome with mild anxiety moves in and wants quiet nogjts, how would you react?

I have a prosecco now and then - is that ok?

Please access some counselling op its the best thing i ever did. Itll help you to unpick your trauma. Getting a lodger at present wouldnt be fair on you or on them. Domt do it

Also depreaskln and anxiety dont mean on the floor, unable to function
I lnow most of my team have MH jssues and neither fit that stereotype. That backwards view put me off getting help for ages - i was ashamed to be like 'them'and i couldnt be mentally ill as i function surely?

@ClaudiaWankleman

Of course she can. If she doesn't want people with unstable moods in her house, that entirely up to her

Of course she can't @ElizaLaLa for the legal reasons given multiple times upthread.

Its the advertising she cannot discriminate in. She can choose or ask questions of personally however she wishes.

Some people do have some strange ideas about this. When I advertised for a lodger, I was contacted by a man in his fifties, who decided my spare room was an ideal base for him as he already lived locally and his landlord was selling up. I just didn't like the sound of him but made up some excuse and told him I wasn't going to let him view because I had someone else interested.

Wow, did he kick off. He sent me several long, rambling emails about how he was "going to report me to the council" for not letting him have his opportunity to view, and then more conciliatory ones about how "we would be a good match". He had also mentioned that he was a firefighter and where he worked, and, worried, that he was some lunatic impersonating a member of the fire service, I contacted the local fire service to check.

Turned out he was actually a fire fighter! I sent them copies of his strange emails and they were horrified and said they would raise a disciplinary hearing with him, particularly as it involved trying to force someone to let them into their private home.

Maybe you could offer to take pets in. Plenty of people will be happy to pay and you will be offering a vital service for people who cannot look after them at the moment.

northofsomewhere has given you good advice. Your best bet is to write about what you are like, your habits and the sort of lifestyle you lead. You should describe what sort of person your home might suit.

You should think carefully about interview questions etc and get someone to help you so you have another persons opinion on who is the best bet.

Could a cat be a better option?