How does the Irish middle class compare to ours

[Norfolker]

My sister in law is from the Republic & she says the class system in Ireland is there but less obvious than ours.. Not as many private schools but more subtle markers.
She also thinks their state education system is far superior so private schooling is unnecessary. Any Irish on here want to elaborate? I found it interesting.
YABU there is no difference between UK & ROI. Exact same class system no difference in markets.
YANBU different traits contribute to the Irish middle class system

It wasn't the UK that tried to eradicate the Irish language

It was.

I’m in Kerry and kids play hockey in the local mixed secondary school. I don’t think Hockey is quite the elitist sport you think

I didn't say elitist - that was entirely a (class-based) spin you put on it - just that it's a type of school/certain areas where a school will do hockey, and another type where they'll do hurling, there are some fair enough based guesses you could make - as another poster did.

The thought of either of my children wielding a stick around their friends to whack a ball as hard as they can is terrifying to me, so thank god they do neither!

@jewel1968

It wasn't the UK that tried to eradicate the Irish language I'm sure it was the nuns. I still have the scars and not memory of the language. PTSD though ..

Er yes, it was the British.

@HarrietPotterska id guess you'd be welcomed by 95% of people and you could build a great life, make friends, integrate completely, and then one day you'd be walking down the street thinking about what you were going to have for dinner and then some random scumbag would shock you to the core with a vile comment. I was reading experiences of non white irish people on fb a while ago and we just cannot get rid of that small percentage of racist fuxkwits.

I think this whole discussion illustrates really well why a lot of Brits won’t engage in conversations about Irish history. It is not, as people suggest, that they don’t know the history - it is just often easier to play dumb. Other people view the history through the lens of expansion, progress, etc and just won’t get into a conversation.

Nothing makes the famine excusable but I avoid talking about history (even though I studied a specialist Irish history course at university inc the Land league, trade unions, etc).

What I loved about primary school growing up in Ireland was that everyone got along. It didn't matter if you were the daughter of a doctor or someone who had been unemployed all their lives, you could still be the best of friends.

At secondary school, the differences started to appear and there was less mixing between these groups. That said, a family friend of ours who hasn't really gone to school properly since he was 13 or 14 and has worked sporadically all his life, is still very good friends with the son of a doctor. I'm not sure that would happen much in England.

It is not, as people suggest, that they don’t know the history - it is just often easier to play dumb. Other people view the history through the lens of expansion, progress, etc and just won’t get into a conversation.

And we don't really give a fuck to be honest.

@LadyfromtheBelleEpoque

I think this whole discussion illustrates really well why a lot of Brits won’t engage in conversations about Irish history. It is not, as people suggest, that they don’t know the history - it is just often easier to play dumb. Other people view the history through the lens of expansion, progress, etc and just won’t get into a conversation.

Nothing makes the famine excusable but I avoid talking about history (even though I studied a specialist Irish history course at university inc the Land league, trade unions, etc).

Let me assure you that, having spent 20 years teaching at English universities, a total ignorance of Irish history — including events well within living memory for anyone over the age of 40 — is alive and well.

And not just history — the numbers of people who had no idea there was a unionist population in NI until the DUP started propping up the Tories, boggled my mind.

@LadyfromtheBelleEpoque I also studied history & I'm particularly keen to hear more of your thoughts on how we (or others) might view our history through the lens of progress & expansion?

Expansion and progress? So say I live next door to you? I want to expand and progress! So I build an extension to my house which goes onto your property. Is that fair, reasonable, logical, legal or even moral?
No it fucking isn't.
Don't fucking come on a thread with loads of Irish posters telling us that it was the UK wanting to expand and fucking progress.

At whose expense?????????????/

Remember as well that due to lack of work opportunities, (which led to waves of emigration in the late 19th century and throughout the 20th century) it was quite normal for well-educated and well-qualified people to end up spending prolonged periods of time out of work and/or on the sole. So I was never aware of any stigma surrounding that, growing up. I'm not saying it wasn't there at all, but in my particular area in the 1980s and 1990s, I had no awareness of it, and I regularly accompanied my mum, dad and auntie to the dole office or the rent allowance office in my teens.

@Hatstrategicallydipped

I’m glad, Hat. The amount of times I hear it mentioned/read it on here it made me wonder. The whole empire history is complex and I think the perspective on teaching history in the UK is designed to give an overview, history of Kings and Queens, Parliament/Magna Carta and the rise of state vs monarchy (Cromwell). Trade and the empire are part of that, of course but there were more complex governances in some places (for example, The Raj) and there is no one unifying historical ‘thought’ on them that could be delivered across the country W/o simplifying many important issues (Partition of India is one).

@LadyfromtheBelleEpoque

I think this whole discussion illustrates really well why a lot of Brits won’t engage in conversations about Irish history. It is not, as people suggest, that they don’t know the history - it is just often easier to play dumb. Other people view the history through the lens of expansion, progress, etc and just won’t get into a conversation.

Nothing makes the famine excusable but I avoid talking about history (even though I studied a specialist Irish history course at university inc the Land league, trade unions, etc).

Your post illustrates why the Irish continue to loathe your way of thinking. It absolutely beggars belief!

Right. Can we get back to the coat from Dunnes?

It is not, as people suggest, that they don’t know the history - it is just often easier to play dumb

Ah come on now, that's pure bollocks. It generally is because they don't know the history" Have you seen any thread on here about Brexit/the border? Half the people can't name the country properly, don't know where the border is, don't know which bit is NI, don't understand why NI "can't just join ROI, that'll solve the border issue"!

The sheer scale of what most Brits don't know about Ireland is immense.

I'm actually dumbfounded at the utter arrogance of your post LadyBellewhateveryouare.

Nothing makes the famine excusable but I avoid talking about history (even though I studied a specialist Irish history course at university inc the Land league, trade unions, etc)

If you studied it properly you should know that there was actually no famine. A famine is where there is no food, there was plenty of food, it just was kept from the people who needed it, purposefully. British landowners continued to have a rich and varied diet as their tenants starved to death outside, and they continued to export vast quantities of food.

There is a reason why its not called the famine in Irish, only in English, because it was the English that caused it and called it a famine to avoid responsibility. In Irish its called an gorta mor, the great hunger.

Wow! And that’s why people don’t discuss it, I guess.

I don’t for a second think expansion and progress were valid reasons to take over others land and identities - what on earth made you think I would?

Some do, though - Africa was partitioned by European countries. South America by Spain and Portugal. These are historic facts.

I am of Irish descent - I grew up in London and know full well how discreet some people choose to be.

Some do, though - Africa was partitioned by European countries. South America by Spain and Portugal. These are historic facts.

This is a thread about the class system in Ireland??? Wtf have Spain or Portugal got to do with the price of chips?

What do you mean by 'I know full well how discreet some people choose to be'?

You are really not doing yourself any favours on this thread @LadyfromtheBelleEpoch

And here we have Exhibit A - LadyfromtheBelleEpoque

A lady from the British Empire who apparently studied Irish history at third level.

And you, the jury question whether the Irish education system is better than that of the UK?

I hereby conclude my closing argument.

QEfuckingD

@IceIceBebe

Yes, I know An Gorta Mor is the correct term - but the term famine is also used in Ireland. And the Corn laws/repeal issue - I do know Irish history.

I cannot understand why someone thinks this is arrogant- I am talking about knowledge/history of Ireland in UK as it is delivered through the curriculum. There was an issue years ago about not teaching the Falklands war - we don’t teach about things within a certain time period - and that has raised many a concern.

@Hatstrategicallydipped

And here we have Exhibit A - LadyfromtheBelleEpoque

A lady from the British Empire who apparently studied Irish history at third level.

And you, the jury question whether the Irish education system is better than that of the UK?

I hereby conclude my closing argument.

QEfuckingD

Now, now, play nice -- she's just being 'discreet' about her knowledge. For some reason that isn't fully apparent.

The 900 yoyo star-patch shearling sleeves, now...

[quote LadyfromtheBelleEpoque]@IceIceBebe

Yes, I know An Gorta Mor is the correct term - but the term famine is also used in Ireland. And the Corn laws/repeal issue - I do know Irish history.

I cannot understand why someone thinks this is arrogant- I am talking about knowledge/history of Ireland in UK as it is delivered through the curriculum. There was an issue years ago about not teaching the Falklands war - we don’t teach about things within a certain time period - and that has raised many a concern.[/quote]
Here lady.

Keep it on topic. Can you do that much? We don't care about your curriculum!!! We. do. not. care. We're doing brilliantly without your expansionist progressive notions thank you very much!

What I loved about primary school growing up in Ireland was that everyone got along. It didn't matter if you were the daughter of a doctor or someone who had been unemployed all their lives, you could still be the best of friends.

This is absolutely the case at our school - we have everything from a Tesla to 15 year old bangers doing drop off, playdates with anyone. The only thing I've noticed compared to the international schools the kids went to in other countries is that DS1 has had a harder time finding proper friends as there is more expectation that boys will play with boys, and that will be football (admittedly it's a small school, and his class has a certain group culture that his little brother's one doesn't). But TBH that was also a thing in Italy, and the school here absolutely noticed unlike in Italy, and have made some efforts to help him out (whilst also being a bit at a loss about the idea of a boy that doesn't know anything about sports). And I do note that Ireland is extremely hot on promoting sportswomen just as much as sportsmen.

To be fair, I don't know much British history either, and I've had to explain to people here (and people from lots of other places) how the UK fits together - there's a certain amount of that anywhere I've been, forgetting that the UK isn't just England.

I am talking about knowledge/history of Ireland in UK as it is delivered through the curriculum

As far as I can tell from talking to British people, Ireland is not mentioned on the UK curriculum.