How does the Irish middle class compare to ours

[Norfolker]

My sister in law is from the Republic & she says the class system in Ireland is there but less obvious than ours.. Not as many private schools but more subtle markers.
She also thinks their state education system is far superior so private schooling is unnecessary. Any Irish on here want to elaborate? I found it interesting.
YABU there is no difference between UK & ROI. Exact same class system no difference in markets.
YANBU different traits contribute to the Irish middle class system

I am agog- what does hockey signify please?

Hockey is very much a notions/D4/rich people signifier. If you said you played hockey at school we can guess you probably went to Mount Anville or Teresian or Sackville etc.

@Deadringer

Badwill of course evolution and science are not taught in Irish Catholic schools, sure aren't we all descended from Adam and Eve?

Careful now, Deadringer. There's so much ignorance and misinformation about Ireland on this thread that some people will take you seriously

Brits know nothing about Ireland.

@IceIceBebe

Brits know nothing about Ireland.

I think from time immemorial were seen as a wild, uncouth, unintelligent and ignorant race. When Britain occupied Ireland, they then saw us as a wild, uncouth, ruthless opponent. Now, they see us as mildly uneducated villains requiring their civil input to keep us tamed. What they have never seen us as is the brilliant, untamed, brave, courageous, highly intelligent and now thriving nation that we are finally becoming. We are for the first time in centuries, surpassing the British and it's something quite unimaginable to them. We're an outward-looking, progressive, young nation with a host of talent and talented young minds. We're at the cutting edge of the IT industry and it has rather taken them by surprise! We also have a rich culture which the British lack. Apart from their monarchy, the UK has very little to unite them. Class matters to them as they are monarchists. Class doesn't matter to the Irish so much as we are more than 'subjects'.

We're not backwards and this is Breaking News to the British!

To me Irish education could never be superior as almost all schools are catholic.

That's not true, though. Less than half of Irish secondary schools are catholic, and while it's about 90% of primary schools that number is getting smaller every year as new schools are overwhelmingly multi-d and many older schools are seeking to change their patronage from catholic to multi-d.

There isn't a single non/multi-denominational school in my entire county.

There isn't a single county in Ireland that doesn't have a multi denominational school. ETB secondaries and community colleges are all multi-d. I think there's one county (Tipp?) that still doesn't have a multi-d primary but that's pretty exceptional now. www.education.ie/en/Find-a-School/

In one town where I have family, 2 of the 4 primaries and both of the secondaries are multi-d. In another, 1 of the 5 primaries and 2 of the 4 secondaries are multi-d. It depends on local demand.

For every one step forwards that Ireland has and continues to take, the British seem to be taking a step backwards.

@Cacacoisfarraige

I played Hockey, but in a north side school. I think Hockey was a preferred sport of single sex girl schools who weren’t in thrall to the GAA

I’m in Kerry and kids play hockey in the local mixed secondary school. I don’t think Hockey is quite the elitist sport you think

It is a bit in Dublin as they don't have the space that country schools would have.

In dd's school (rural), they are hockey players - mixed school.
I went to a Loreto Convent - also hockey players.
The other mixed vocational secondary in the town didn't play hockey.
It is a bit of an indicator to be honest.

@Notimeforaname

I find the way you talk about 'class' on here really strange . People just don't do that in Ireland. You would be laughed at!

Exactly!

To be fair to us over the water, nobody else talks about class - it's only on Mumsnet you hear such utter tripe. Wait until you get the class threads and you would not believe how many middle class folks there are on here. Priceless.

Just look at the British political system.

You have the House of Lords (passed down through birthright)
and then............
You have the House of Commons lol.

Just look at that word 'Commons'. What a term!

@Hatstrategicallydipped

Just look at the British political system.

You have the House of Lords (passed down through birthright)
and then............
You have the House of Commons lol.

Just look at that word 'Commons'. What a term!

It's all fields there, you know?

It does sound good RE the education! Maybe it's time for me to apply for a passport (my mum's Irish). What are people's experiences of people of colour and racism? My dad's black Cuban so I'm mixed race.

I suppose within my family, a lot are probably what you'd call middle class over here. With the exception of my father, a farmer, who is considered upper class to an extent (a more common or garden miser you could not meet!).
Of my cousins on my mother's side you have
SAHM
Dunnes Shop Assistant
An eejit always attempting to make his fortune through cons
A factory worker
A scientist
A teacher
Another teacher
A scientist

My family
A dentist
Another teacher
A business exec

On my other side (my Dad's side)
A quantity surveyor
A plumber
A sales rep for Coca Cola
An entrepreneur with a bouncy castle business/property developer
Don't know
Don't know
A carpenter
3 x too young to be anything yet
Bar managers/owners x 3
Something in Finance
A Chinese restaurant delivery guy (my fav cousin)!

@HarrietPotterska

It does sound good RE the education! Maybe it's time for me to apply for a passport (my mum's Irish). What are people's experiences of people of colour and racism? My dad's black Cuban so I'm mixed race.

Once you've the Irish drop, we'll claim you.

Fáilte go dtí Eireann!

@Apollo3

I am agog- what does hockey signify please?

Hockey is very much a notions/D4/rich people signifier. If you said you played hockey at school we can guess you probably went to Mount Anville or Teresian or Sackville etc.

Thank you Apollo3 and others. There is a parallel of this in England too: Where I live now (v large city in English Midlands) hockey is seen as a private school sport. I work in an outstanding leafy girls' comp, and they don't do hockey because they have no pitch. The hockey clubs locally are filled with children who attend fee paying schools, or whose parents aren't from UK. Where I grew up (the wild North...) at my "sink" comprehensive school girls did hockey and netball, boys rugby (league not union) and football, all did cricket and athletics in summer term. My friend who teaches PE is actually a hockey specialist, but also comes from the Northern wilds. Even more bizarrely, at my own school we sometimes did lacrosse, which even most fee paying schools don't offer these days. Malory Towers it was not!

It's all fields there, you know? grin

I suppose it's consoling that we can call Boris the leader of the Commoners. Haha.

Anyway to me (and the people I grew up with) hockey is just a sport like any other.

It does sound good RE the education! Maybe it's time for me to apply for a passport (my mum's Irish). What are people's experiences of people of colour and racism? My dad's black Cuban so I'm mixed race

I'm white irish so can't speak personally, but I live in a rural village and the schools are incredibly mixed. My daughters school has kids that are from (or whose parents are from) all over Europe, Eastern europe, India, Sr Lanka, Pakistan, China, Malaysia. various African nations...and even a few British people . I know some of the parents and people talk very positively about their experience of living in Ireland.

Harriet - have you any part of Ireland in mind? Perhaps where your Mum is from? Or one of the cities?
If you can get your children involved in Irish culture, you'll fit in. Music, dance, singing, GAA etc.

Oh - misread. Yes, absolutely apply for your Irish passport! Why wouldn't you!!!
Go back and see your Mum's side of the family too.

OuiOuiKitty
It's nothing to do with looking the part and everything to do with selecting the right school environment for our children with the bonus of them becoming bilingual and learning to love their language in a way that I never or their father ever did

Sorry I didn't mean this was the case for all!

I meant in my sister's case...she openly did it because she's desperate to get away from her working class roots. She's not a very nice person.
And as someone said way up thread...people like my sister are known for doing this when they want to be in with a more ''MC looking crowd ''

When I was growing up I had 2 friends who were sent to Irish speaking secondary schools after our regular Primary school. Both said it was because their parents didn't want then to grow up speaking/acting like the rest of us. (We were all good kids) One girls Mam told her if she stayed in our school she would be pregnant at 16. She was pregnant by 16...in her Irish school

This kind of snobbery is disgusting. My sister feels nothing but embarrassment when she looks at us, her family.
But I guess we new feel the same way looking back at her...she must be as thick as two short planks to think like this.
I feel sorry for her children shes a nasty piece of work who cares only about climbing a social ladder.
And to her...Gealscoil is getting them all one step closer. How exciting for her

The Irish are quite accustomed to emigrants. Everyone has a few in their family who have emigrated. You might not be too welcomed if you have the paw out expecting to be fed (which nobody has, but the Irish have to FEED any visitors - it's a thing - we put that expectation on ourselves!!), so they can sometimes be reluctant to meet the forriners. Most are normal people though.

It wasn't the UK that tried to eradicate the Irish language I'm sure it was the nuns. I still have the scars and not memory of the language. PTSD though ..