Moral obligation to have the vaccine. Is one of us being selfish?

[FLOrenze]

We are in our mid 70s and are both very fit. We have strictly observed the rules from the beginning. The on-line calculator says we should be due for the vaccine in February.

DH says he won’t have it yet so that someone further down the line can be vaccinated. I think we have a moral obligation to vaccinate.

His view is that we we only go to the supermarket, we wear masks and wash our hands. I think that even though we have minimal chance of catching the virus he should protect me before others.

The single biggest risk factor is age, far more than many of the 'underlying conditions' that people speak of. So it doesn't really matter how fit he is, his age alone means that experts have decided, based on data, that his risk means he gets it above the groups that are lower down the list. Him deciding that he shouldn't is just silly and irresponsible really.

There is a priority list for a reason. He needs to take it.

Is he scared of taking it?

Which is all fine as long as he is prepared to take the risk of not getting treatment if he does catch covid
The vaccine doesn't stop you from catching covid.
And we don't have an NHS that looks at previous behaviour before deciding to treat you. If it did, then the idiots who have been marching and rallying would be at the bottom of the list imo not an older person who thinks others should be prioritised for the vaccine.

It should also be noted that the estimated date really is just a vague estimate.

It depends on how quick the rollout goes in your area, as far as I understand it.

If your area gets through the over 80s next week, they'll be straight onto the 70s, then whichever group next. It could be that in some areas the over 50s are vaccinated earlier than 60s elsewhere, for example.

Trying to change your appointment for any reason is just going to slow the rollout.

We need to take the appointment we're given, wherever possible, to make sure that they have a steady stream of people being vaccinated constantly and no disruptions.

Variability is the enemy of any flow process - it needs to be kept running smoothly to maximise throughput of people.

I understand someone wanting people who they thing should be further up the queue going first. However, the priority list has been fixed and has some sense to it, so please take it.

i guess you cant make him
old lady down the road also refused, her daughter told me,
it is not selfless, it is selfish really

If he wants to refuse it and take his chances that's up to him.

however i am not going to voice my opinions in RL

@Badoukas

If he wants to refuse it and take his chances that's up to him.

It's up to him whether he has it or not but he shouldn't think he's helping other people.

His body, his choice.

At his age, he can choose to live in a self-isolating way and take precautions. It's not as if he's a key worker interfacing with customers all the time.

I disagree with some PPS who suggest this is not a moral obligation. It is. Millions of vulnerable people getting this vaccine is not only essential for them, but to ensure that the rest of the population can get the other health care that they need, like urgent cancer treatment and surgeries. Vulnerable people choosing to not take the vaccine are being massively selfish, they are putting others at risk and yes causing others to die unnecessarily. There should be no issue with saying this because it is true on a statistical level.

We are on a war footing. Attending a 15 minute appointment to take a medicine is literally the smallest thing anyone could be asked. Personally I think anyone who refuses has essentially opted out of society.

If he doesn't take the vaccine, then he can't expect those at lower risk to continue to disrupt their lives and opportunities in order to protect him.

I think he's actually anxious about the vaccine and is using this chivalry as a way of masking that.

One could equally argue we are morally obliged not to force people into medical procedures they don't want.

I feel the same as your DH although a lot younger, but the reality is we will stop someone elses operation if we end up ill in hospital. That and the fact I want some normality back for everyone are the reasons for having the injection.

My dad has been forced to stay off work everytime theres been an increase in tiers or something, though been able to go in inbetween (he finds this ridiculous as right up til midnight the night before tier changes, its 'safe' for him, just not the next day! which does sound sstupid). Hes annoyed but sees they are trying to help him. He now feels an obligation to work to get it when he is offered it, because of this. He says he would probably get it anyway BUT now feels like he kind of HAS to which he is not happy with either.

DH says he won’t have it yet so that someone further down the line can be vaccinated. I think we have a moral obligation to vaccinate.

On the one hand your DH is being thoughtful. On the other hand him not being vaccinated isn't really helping anyone else "further down the line" and it would be more helpful to logistics if he and you made appointments to be vaccinated as soon as you are given the opportunity. The NHS does not want to waste time chasing after people who haven't taken up the vaccine they were offered and yes there are reasons why the vaccines are offered in a particular order. Vaccinating older people first does protect the NHS because age alone is the biggest risk factor for getting really ill.

tbh I wouldn't be going to the supermarket now either if you don't have to - can you get an online delivery? That new variant is really contagious. I'm a bit younger and am now avoiding unnecessary shopping.

No-one has a moral duty to take the vaccine! Their body, their choice.

I’m assuming your DH isn’t a highly qualified and experienced medical professional?
If not then he should take the advice of those who are and have the vaccine

Like pp, I wonder if he is really nervous about having the jab and dressing it up as chivalry.

Everyone is being advised to have the vaccine as soon as they're offered it. Going against medical advice comes across as slightly arrogant IMO and, yes, there is an element of moral obligation when it comes to a highly transmissable disease.
Still, no one can force him to have it, quite rightly.

@TatianaBis

His body, his choice.

At his age, he can choose to live in a self-isolating way and take precautions. It's not as if he's a key worker interfacing with customers all the time.

I agree, it's his choice.

But regarding him self-isolating and taking precautions, etc, that's really not the point.

The idea is that as many as possible are vaccinated, for the greater good. The more unvaccinated people, the more chance the virus will be spread to those who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons.

There's a good degree of altruism needed for this to be effective.

@bearandowl

No-one has a moral duty to take the vaccine! Their body, their choice.

Do you think none of us have any moral duty towards anyone else?

Not sure if this has been said but, as he sounds very kind, if he places value in other people getting something like a normal life back her should get the vaccine. There will likely be decisions made on the basis of vaccine take up percentage. However well intended he will impact on that data if he doesn’t.
There is also a role model point to be made

@bearandowl

No-one has a moral duty to take the vaccine! Their body, their choice.

Well, yes they do.

People who “choose” not to vaccinate their children literally kill vulnerable children (who are medically unable to get vaccinated, and highly vulnerable) through their actions.

If acting like a reasonable member of society to avoid killing others is not within your moral system, then I’d suggest your moral code has some flaws.