to not give employee a chance?

[hippiedoodah]

I run a small business and hired an intern for three months early last year. He LOVED the job and spoke a lot about how this was almost his dream role etc etc.

I have hired a few people before and I had this gut feeling not to trust him in his first week that I have never had with other workers. He worked remotely and did the work. I wasn't impressed with his work but I kept a positive attitude and I gave him pointers to improve. I decided I wouldn't work with him again. There were many levels of mismatch with him being unreliable, narcissistic traits disguised as confidence, different personal values etc

He had no idea I felt like this. The position ended which felt like relief. I am always polite and since he was going there was no reason to be anything but polite.

Then...we needed someone very short notice for temp work the month after an employee quit without notice and he had been pestering me for a job and knew about this opening. My co founder suggested rehiring him since he knew our business and we were desperate, so I let him rejoin which was only meant to be for a week or two.

He had no idea that, although completely friendly outwardly, I really didn't feel he was right for the team. The position of two weeks just drew out longer and longer, there always was more work and we needed an extra pair of hands. I knew he was the wrong person but I was too exhausted to find another. He we there another two months.

My co-founder loves him as he is very charming and cannot see why I don't want to consider him. She and him socialize outside of work though an online group as they happen to know alot of the same people.

Now that position has ended but his 'dream role' is about to become available full time and I will be advertising it far and wide to find the best person. Co-founder wants to offer it to him but I really don't want to give him a second chance.

The problem is that he feels like I am one of his closest friends in London (my friednliness and enthusiasm) and he will assume it is his job and will ask for his start date/interview, he will pester me with calls etc. Whatever reason I give for him not being right for the role etc he will challenge and try and prove otherwise, he really needs the job and is struggling so much financially without any support and is being evicted, he has pulled on my emotional strings in the past.

He will be moving in the circles I am in for a long time so I have to stay on good form. He will find out about this opening very soon. I just have no idea how to turn him down and if I should just give him a chance and be firmer.

AIBU to veto this and not give him a chance. If I turn him down how do I do it without being an ass hole, what reason do I give that he can't dispute?

Don’t hire him. If he behaves as he has done as an eager to please intern he will be a nightmare as a hard to fire employee.

Tell your cofounder he's not much use at the job. I think your gut is giving you a very good warning. This is not like being biased against an ethnic group and not giving them a chance. You did give him the chance and the red flags have got worse and your cofounder is blind to this. I'd be worried that he undermines you with her too. The pain of dealing with a bad hire far outweighs the time taken for getting a good hire.

Not to brag but I am involved in a lot of hires and my picks tend to work out and the ones I've had doubts but was overruled over haven't. I do listen to my gut in hiring because the subconscious is picking up things my conscious mind hasn't yet processed. It's never about gender, race, religion, being nervous in the interview etc. I don't manage all these people either so its not some self-fulfilling prophecy.

But you don't even have to look for subtle clues - they are all in living Technicolor in front of you. He's arrogant, doesn't respect you, produces mediocre work and the other staff nember can't work with him.You don't want to hire him and you have no obligation to do so. I'd be having a chat with the other staff member to find out what's wrong too. Finally, if you need this I give you permission not to hire him or even shortlist him.

I’d trust my gut feeling if it was me and it’s sounds like it’s giving you those warning vibes for a reason.

Plus you are looking for someone with more experience aren’t you?

As others have said you’ll need to advertise to external candidates anyway. Have a frank conversation with your co founder if you can trust them not to repeat any of it to him.

It’s not your co founder that will be working with him. It’s you. You need to feel comfortable about the candidate.

I think, regardless of this position and employee, you need to focus more on your managerial ability than anything else. You use overly emotive language when describing this person, which is odd. It's work. Why are you bothered about "bruising his ego?" You say you can't trust him yet haven't detailed a single thing that he's done that would be an offence worth disciplining or terminating his employment for. You keep stressing points about your "kindness" but this makes you sound incredibly weak and passive. Even moreso when you're so against this employeee that you haven't already put your foot down with your co-founder who, apparently, is beneath you anyway, and said "absolutely no way are we hiring him".

I'm sure you're a lovely person to work for if you're a good employee but you need to start leading and showing strength, and a bit of resilience. If this man is as bad as you say he is, unless you don't change then you will end up giving him the job and having a lifetime of issues and struggles to get rid of him once and for all. Why? Because he knows you're a soft touch and how to manipulate you. He'll manipulate you into giving him the job and then onwards to keeping it. So don't let it get to that point where we can end up challenging you for an unfair dismissal.

Of course, the other narrative is that he's inexperienced and needs better guidance to improve, and because you don't like him, you would rather use his failures against him than to guide him to success. Performance meetings with a colleagues are a good idea, perhaps have one with him, before you advertise, where you explicitly tell him what he needs to improve on and make notes. Then, if he continues to be lazy or make the same mistakes, at least you have proof of addressing these issues and providing additional training, so you could begin a disciplinary process.

Regardless, though, stop letting your emotions dictate your professional relationships. Ultimately, his financial situation isn't your concern. Stick to the facts and his work performance. If your co founder sees you making a decision with hard facts, they will be much more accepting of hiring someone else rather than him. For example, if your sale target for him was 7,000 orders and he attained 70 orders, that is a lot easier to explain to your co founder of why he isn't a good fit rather than saying "I don't like or trust him".

As I said previously, I'm sure you are lovely to work for, but some employees need a much firmer hand than others or they'll take the piss all day long. Don't let people abuse your kindness. It's a great trait to have but don't let people see it as your weakness. You can still be kind and strong. You can be understanding yet firm. You are the boss. Assert yourself and be proud of that

You hold an open and transparent recruitment process with a clear person specification. You hire someone with more relevant, or simply more, experience. If asked you explain that you chose someone who was more qualified for the role. You don't get into detailed explanations about comparisons with other candidates - that's not his business. In the event, he may prove to be the most qualified candidate, but it sounds like he is early career and, in this climate, I am sure you will get other suitable applicants.

Depending on where you are, his employment rights with less than two years experience will be minimal so he will have little recourse to tribunals etc unless on the basis of a protected characteristic.

If you don't think he is a good team fit, ditch him. This is what being an employer is about. Sometimes you have to make decisions that mean someone becomes unemployed, and that will have profound repercussions for them. The only way to deal with it is to be objective and reasonable. If he is not doing the job you need him to do, whether through quality of work, team fit, or for some other reason, you should let him go. He will go on to find another role.

Trust your gut feeling. You don't have to justify it least of all to him.

If he's as manipulative as he sounds then he will have no problem getting ahead. The business world is full of successful men like him!

you are being too nice.
just tell him that he is not the right fit for your company and the way you wish to run it.
maybe point out the instructions that he ignored.
just make sure that as others have said, the requirements specify something that he cannot meet, either in terms of qualifications, or specific experience.
sounds like he has been quite manipulative with your co-founder too. but tell her that as you are the one who worked directly with him, you know he is trouble.
stand firm. you need to be more guarded, less friendly with employees. keep a professional boundary.
view it as a lesson learned.

Just say no. He’s not suitable. End of story.

While ideally any manager could deal with a pushy narcissist it’d be draining to the best of them. So I find the comments all about your managerial ability not so relevant to this candidate.

Since your partner finds him charming I’d lead with him being inadequate in the work he does and his poor attitude for improving. Also mention any sexist comments he’s made to show he’s unsuitable to work with.

I agree with others that he sounds awful and you shouldn’t hire him. There were be lots of candidates to consider and much better ones.

Will be*

Business owner here. Yes you probably should have done differently before, but you are here now and need to close this out.
He applies. You respond formally with ‘thanks for the application but i won’t be progressing this to interview. I hope the experience that you have gained with us proves useful when you apply to other organisations. Once you have enriched your work experience through working in alternative companies you will be welcome to apply again’
Then engage no further with him in writing. If your industry is such that you MUST keep a good relationship then you may want to chat with him over zoom or something and say that you think his CV is great now but his skills needs more breadth and more depth than you feel your company can give him. And if he carries on pushing even after that, them be blunt and tell him he has a marmite effect on people which will hold him back and will only disappear when he gets more experience at working with a variety of different people
And if he still pushes then you say what you mean by this is that, during his previous engagements in your company, he demonstrated a lack of respect on occasions, and a lack of ability to develop strong professional relationships and that this holds him back currently and he needs to build on this with experience gained by working with a variety of different personalities.
If he carries on pushing tell him (very calmly and quietly, not shouty or in a ‘gotcha’ way) that it is exactly this continual pushing forward, rather than listening absorbing and understanding, that shows a lack of people skills, and this is what needs to be developed.
And repeat that last bit on an infinite loop as necessary.
Do not veer away from this, do not allow yourself to be drawn into giving specific examples.
Tell your co-founder you can’t stand him and that you will not work with him again, and of.

end of.

Hmm. I read all your posts on Read All, as its silly o clock, and I'm half asleep, but I ended up going back to read what Themobilesite had said to you. I don't see how that is judgement, I think it sounds perfectly reasonable. You were employing this bloke at the time, you were his boss, and I think it's perfectly reasonable to at least shoot straight down any sexist remarks. From what you've said, I personally wouldn't want him on a small team, and sexist men give me the rage at any time, let alone having to work alongside/above them. He obviously feels confident enough to come out with this crap in front of you...If he feels you are his best mate in London, has he absorbed how you feel about his sexism? Sounds like he hasn't, or you haven't properly called him on it. You will know which one it is.
I would avoid hiring him, but I'm not sure what happens if co-founder says yes and you say no. Who has final say? Another option might be to throw him the odd bone, in the form of freelance work of a basic basis level that he can't cock up? Would that work?

You do have my sympathies, this is a crap part of the hiring/firing process.

I really dislike managing people so you have my sympathies OP. He sound manipulative and I think as you are such a small team, it would be madness to hire someone that doesn't fit cohesively with the rest of the group.
Stay strong. He can't bully himself into a position.

Yabu. You've used him to do a job when you were desperate and now you feel inadequate compared to him. Just tell him straight he won't be considered for the role. And if you don't find someone tough, you will have to manage without crawling back to him.

Trust your gut. He has already taken up too much of your precious time. His ‘stuff’ is a distraction from what needs your focus and attention.

Just do what @TheBlessedCheesemaker said, was about to type same thing but she’s saved me the trouble. Seen a few of these types and they will (ime) keep pushing until you get to the ‘and this is exactly why I won’t hire you’ moment.....

now you feel inadequate compared to him.

That's a bizarre way to look at it. He's not good at the job and is overbearing to deal with. Those don't make him superior.

I've only hired an employee against my gut once, and I lived to regret it.

What I will say is that it comes across overwhelmingly that you don't know how to be a manager. Being great at being an entrepreneur doesn't necessarily mean you know how to manage people, and I think you'd really benefit from some courses where you get to discover your own management style, work on your assertivesness and practise holding difficult conversations.

Even if you don't hire this guy, you are bound to have employee issues with someone at some point in the future, and this doesn't sound like something you're equipped to handle.

The alternative would be to perhaps get a HR consultant on a retainer basis so you could get some support on an ad hoc basis, as and when you needed it. I'd recommend, however, working on yourself instead if you can afford the time/cost commitment.

It's not that this guy has 'different values'. He doesn't respect your authority or your professional boundaries. He sees your weaknesses and he seeks to manipulate them.

You're not prepared to describe his negative traits accurately, for what they are, because you don't want to offend him (even though he isn't even reading this thread!) and you don't want to be the person who calls him out on them. That's on you.

Remember, this is your business. It's your baby. Don't let anyone pressurise you into leaving your baby with someone you don't trust to look after it. This isn't just a job to you; this is something you made.

[quote hippiedoodah]@TheMobileSiteMadeMeSignup you don't have to judge me. It's not as simple as that. And I appreciate your honesty but I didn't come to be bashed.

He didn't respect my requests nor my goals for improvement. But he was charming and said all the right things before completely ignoring them. He was always on edge and the one time I had to be more firm, he almost exploded with rage and I could tell by his face as he sat in silence for the first time looking angry and being very defensive. He then emailed saying he was taking annual leave the next day. I told him that annual leave had to be booked in advance. He never showed up the next day. The day after he acted as if nothing happened and was shocked that he had to book annual leave in advance, and had only just read the email, and would book in advance in the future.

I didn't think any further disciplining him would improve his performance, only worsen. I couldn't make him respect me. Since the placement was short and he was producing useable but not great work, I thought the best bet was to ride it out.

Hes unpredictable and manipulative. The other employee has requested to work alone rather than with him despite being really enthusiastic to work with him at the start.[/quote]
You should’ve let him go at this point. You’ve let him walk all over you.

[quote hippiedoodah]@TheMobileSiteMadeMeSignup you don't have to judge me. It's not as simple as that. And I appreciate your honesty but I didn't come to be bashed.

He didn't respect my requests nor my goals for improvement. But he was charming and said all the right things before completely ignoring them. He was always on edge and the one time I had to be more firm, he almost exploded with rage and I could tell by his face as he sat in silence for the first time looking angry and being very defensive. He then emailed saying he was taking annual leave the next day. I told him that annual leave had to be booked in advance. He never showed up the next day. The day after he acted as if nothing happened and was shocked that he had to book annual leave in advance, and had only just read the email, and would book in advance in the future.

I didn't think any further disciplining him would improve his performance, only worsen. I couldn't make him respect me. Since the placement was short and he was producing useable but not great work, I thought the best bet was to ride it out.

Hes unpredictable and manipulative. The other employee has requested to work alone rather than with him despite being really enthusiastic to work with him at the start.[/quote]
I have a feeling that as a manager you need to be a LOT more direct with your feedback. These details, along with the sexist remarks, should be leading any feedback - they're major red flags and in themselves more than enough reason not to hire him full time.

However when I was reading this thread the OP just had vagueness about how you couldn't trust him and had a gut feeling - it took several posts for the actual concrete details to come out. Have you expressed your concerns about the disrespect, the sexism, the rage and the annual leave incident directly to your cofounder? If you're just waffling about gut feeling to her I can see why she's ignoring you.

Go straight to the details that matter. You're probably right on this one and it's because of specific things, not gut feeling.

Do not hire him.

If he cannot be reliable in three months, then he never will be. That is enough for me, the other reasons are just additions.

You're actually in a really strong position here, just don't hire him. You have really compelling reasons not to.

A few years ago I took over a new job as manager, one team member was exactly like this. In a large company with very complex, long winded performance management procedures it was difficult to get rid but I started the process. What helped the situation was actually his supreme arrogance, he thought he was untouchable and eventually did something so egregious that I had a clear rationale to just sack him for gross misconduct. Most of these types are not so daft, they don't usually make such errors. The amount of my time dealing with the idiot took was unreal and the toxic effects of his shenanigans took a long time to heal.

Don't sleepwalk into a nightmare, you've had some great advice on here, please follow it. You don't owe him an explanation- another candidate was the best fit for the role, end of.

and forcing me to give in or be the bad forceful person. So that makes me feel inadequate because I would have to be the sort of boss I don't want to be.

I am rather confused by this. Being assertive, knowing what is right for your company and knowing he doesn't fit what you are looking for does not make you a 'bad' manager. It just means you have to make the hard decisions and back them up afterwards.

As pp suggested, write the job description so he cannot qualify for the role I.e. minimum 2 years experience in X. Also just because he calls, doesn't mean you have to answer. You turn him down fir the role, give him the reason clearly 'you do not habe enough experience' then completely disengage with him while also shutting down any pressure from your business partner.

I've worked with people like the one you describe, once they get in it is very hard to get them out.

Don't hire him... He is waiting to be in a permanent role before he really starts taking the piss.

Just the time he took that day off alone is enough not to hire again.
He sulked.. This is manipulation
He took a day off without booking.. So he can't follow basic logical instructions
He ignored you/purposely disobeyed you... How can he expect you to work with him when he does this. Its the first expectation when you hire someone.
He lied to get away with it... Nobody wants to spend time with a liar, let alone work with them. You need to trust your employees.