To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

Do you acknowledge that it was likely impossible to do the same as NZ? Or if we could when should initial lockdown have occurred?

I never said it was possible for the UK to do the same as NZ. However, letting people into the country from all around the world with no checking, no quarantine is just foolhardy. Anyone with half a brain could surely see that. Not to mention letting large gatherings occur at the beginning of the pandemic when everyone could see what was happening. I had a cold at the beginning of February, and people at my work joked about it being covid - even then we could see what was happening in Wuhan, and really was it so hard to imagine that it would soon spread around the world. The UK could have implemented a realiable testing and tracing program and had a stricter original lockdown. And yes, you should have had an earlier lockdown (you went into lockdown the same time as NZ), but no, it seemed to be more a case of ignore it and it might just disappear.

@eaglejulesk we had lockdown at similar time to the rest of europe in terms of cases etc
Remember the who advised against shutting borders at first and not many european countries closed borders
We had a pretty harsh lockdown in march there was nothing really open and schools were shut , we were allowed out for exercise only so not really sure whAt more we could of done lockdown wise
Although borders shut then may of been an idea but not sure how many were actually coming here as everything was shut

@eaglejulesk we also
Did have quarantine in place from certain countries
But uk is so different from Nz and being part of europe where there is a lot of travel between countries as its cheap and easy , nz does not have this sort of travelling

NZ might be far away from everywhere, but if it hadn’t had a strict lockdown and didn’t have border controls in place then it’s health system would have collapsed by now and its economy would be stuffed.

NZ is remote and yet covid is still carried into the country most days, they just have systems in place to keep it contained, which means it’s pretty much work, school, holidays as usual for many of the people that live there. It’s population density might be much lower, but covid was spread rapidly around the country from one end to the other - some of the least populated areas were the worst affected.

Forget about comparing countries. The UK could have and should have managed things much better than it has and it needs to be doing more now rather than hoping a vaccine will solve all its problems.

@Kiwi09 you have a poulation of about 5 million we have 67 milliion on a similar size country , you can lock down a small country that also isn't part of europe or an international travel hub very quickly
Do you have thousands of trucks arriving daily from all over the eu? Providing food and medicine for over 60 million , it is in no way comparable and a lot easier to close down
Yes of you had remained open it could of been worse but it is a lot easier for nz to close borders but you are also going to be reliant in vaccine in order to ever open your borders again , they can't remain shut for years and still have an economy

@Kiwi09 its not holidays as usual other than within nz , you can't go abroad as most can't afford quarantine etc on top
Lots of people won't of seen or be able to anytime soon see family in different parts of the world
Its greAt you can do things mostly as normal now but if you had 60 million living in your country you could not implement the same measures that is a fact

@Kiwi09 what do you suggest the uk does more of now we are most of the country pretty much in lockdown with schools on delayed return
One thing we have done though is started the vaccines for europe this is the way out for now as numbers across are so high , italy worse thank uk , spain just behind , even germany who had it much more under control at the beginning have Seen huge rises since

Yes of you had remained open it could of been worse but it is a lot easier for nz to close borders but you are also going to be reliant in vaccine in order to ever open your borders again , they can't remain shut for years and still have an economy

Do you have data to back up the economic predictions? Here in Australia there are 10 new cases in Victoria and the message is that further lockdowns are not economically viable so everyone had better work together to keep things under control. And yes, that’s 10 cases, not the 50 thousand new cases the U.K. has.

My feeling is that tourism losses are offset by having everyone at work, schools open, a functioning health care system and shops, restaurants, cafes doing normal business.

I’m not an economist though so I’d be more than happy to see economic data proving that schools shutting, businesses closing, people staying at home and not eating out but open borders is a better economic prospect.

Should add as well that local touristy places are still doing very well, we had to book weeks in advance for our summer holiday and still didn’t get our first choice. No international tourism will be offset to some extent by Aussies having local holidays.

@nolongersurprised different countries will have different requirements are you part of europe ?? The size of your country is vast , we had larger numbers in the first place so trying to
Contain was always going to be harder
Again do you have thousands of lorries arriving and leaving by road daily ? From all over europe
No you have none of this it comes by boat or air easier to control really
Its so very different in europe

@nolongersurprised so what happens if those 10 cases become 20 then 50 you reckon you still won't lockdown,
Didn't australia just have a lockdown in a certain area a couple weeks ago
I mean you could of done what new zealand did and acted as quickly as them as they have a lot less cases and haven't been in a form of lockdown for months

donewithitall
I’m specially addressing your comment that the borders can’t remain shut and the country still have an economy.

I’m wondering if you actually have evidence that the UK’s current approach is the better economic option? (See above posts).

@nolongersurprised so sydney had restrictions imposed just before xma resulting in. Victoria closing border as such , but lockdowns are needed with thousanda of cases as moat of europe is in some form of lockdown

@nolongersurprised do you have data it isn't

@nolongersurprised i said borders could not remain shut for years which is a fact and borders in uk are very different to nz and australia
Shutting borders in these countries with low numbers was right
Europe is different in so many ways and numbers were high here long before you were getting cases
Do you criticise all of europe or is it just the uk

Being an island helped...but there are islands who haven't managed well. The biggest thing they had going for them was LISTENING AND OBEYING restrictions put into place. No bitching and whining, they just did what they needed to do to protect themselves and their neighbors. It's a mind-set that many places should adopt.

@nolongersurprised do you have data it isn't

I’m sorry, this isn’t a complete sentence. You stated that keeping the borders closed was financially untenable. Clearly though, the Australian government disagrees with you and has decided that a thriving local economy offsets that. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

There are 7 new cases in Sydney today. On the basis of this the government is issuing instructions that in Sydney masks will be mandatory in some indoor working venues. This will be enforced with fines. Luckily the numbers are going down.

@Mamanyt in the uk first lockdown people were very compliant it was like a ghost town some industries stopped who actually technically didn't have to as they took the stay at home message seriously
Please don't blame people for being people after months of huge sacrifices , people who judge from afar without knowing all the facts are just narrow minded

@nolongersurprised i said keeping the borders closed for years and was talking about nz not australia and nz have acknowledged that they wouldn't be able to be shut for years so get of your high horse

@nolongersurprised so goverment os bringing in restrictions and you honestly think if those 7 cases turn in to 50 / 100 / 200 more measures won't be enforced

@nolongersurprised have the australian goverment actually said that it would be possible to keep borders closed for years which is what i said ? And what is right for australia may not be right for the uk or germany or italy or the usa ? Can you not see that

and haven't been in a form of lockdown for months

No we haven’t. We had a 5-6 week lockdown coming into autumn, then Victoria had an effective lockdown in September. Now there’s a few community transmitted cases in Sydney with a public health response and state border closures again.

Like I said, there are 7 new cases in Sydney which is an improvement.

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@Mamanyt in the uk first lockdown people were very compliant it was like a ghost town some industries stopped who actually technically didn't have to as they took the stay at home message seriously
Please don't blame people for being people after months of huge sacrifices , people who judge from afar without knowing all the facts are just narrow minded [/quote]
I actually wasn't thinking of any other particular place. There are several who fit that bill. And I"m certainly not judging...For God's sake, I live in the USA with a BUNCH of whiny bitches who have refused to even wear a mask in crowds, and have from day one. It was a general comment, with the island part being because someone else had mentioned that NZ is an island nation.

I get that you're a bit raw, but you're seeing a direct cut where there was not one.

nolongersurprised i said keeping the borders closed for years and was talking about nz not australia and nz have acknowledged that they wouldn't be able to be shut for years so get of your high horse

Please link to where NZ have said that keeping their borders closed for years will destroy their economy.

you honestly think if those 7 cases turn in to 50 / 100 / 200 more measures won't be enforced

Well, luckily the numbers are going down, thanks to an awesome public health response. Are U.K. public health doing genomic tracing on their new cases as well, to work out where they are coming from?

@nolongersurprised what about just before xmas when victorIa shut its borders and there was restriction in sydey , granted i would rather your restrictions than ours but australia isn't on par with nz who are practically back to normal