To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@chomalungma we didn't , me and you can't do track and trace
The economy minster is also nit responsible for track and trace , his job is the economy so thats what he did.
How do you think he can pay furlough without raising money in as well.
There was no reason we couldn't have both its entirely seperate [/quote]
'We' = the country.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer is a part of the Cabinet.
You would have hoped they would discuss Covid and if eating out would help the pandemic.

It might have bought some money in - but it also might have played a role in keeping the infections ticking over.

Look at the death per million/population - UK stands over 1,000 per m. India for we example stands at 108 per/million

@Brissiegirl currently we look about joint 10th but several countries very close by
Not a good place to be at all , but also not the worse in europe like many claim
This virus has devastated so many countries and we have a vaccine already rolled out some will poss be waiting a few more weeks and may take a long time to be able to administer so who knows what will happen to these numbers
Personally I don't want any to go up anywhere as 1 person dying is always 1 too many

@yankeekingarthurscourt spain are barely behind us
I would say population density plays a huge part and europe in particular seems to of been hard hit

Competent and responsible leadership in NZ. We absolutely could and and should be in same situation but too many delays at the start and then priorities of economics over lives

@yankeekingarthurscourt germany unfortunately have had a huge rise recently as they had low numbers compared to rest of europe , it seems rampant at the moment

@donewithitalltodayandxmas

10th in world is a pretty shocking place to be in imo. Countries we with significantly higher density populations have as so much lower figures. I'm not in UK, our numbers are over by half of the UK stats, and they are still shocking imo.

@Restart2020 how could we
They have 5 million people are about 2500 miles from nearest neighbour, we don't just have air freight we have rd / ferry and we were in europe with freedom of movement in place , nowhere in europe banned travel at first and it was in europe before we even knew it
We have 60 odd million in a country slightly smaller
We are an international travel hub and have loads going through
We could of done better but we could not if done what new zealand did at all

"The only thing Australia currently needs to do is work out how to get all its citizens stuck overseas home which it should have done a year ago"
Are they stuck because there aren't many flights, or because there are limits imposed on how many can return?

I wondered on another thread whether it might in retrospect have been better for the UK to go for a NZ style plan from the beginning of February. 2 week quarantine for anyone entering (so in that sense less strict than NZ and Aus, which don't allow most non-nationals to enter at all); quarantine in hotels with security staff and paid for by the entrant; no accompanied freight; and a lockdown. Yes the virus was probably already quite prevalent in the UK by then, so it would have taken a lot longer than in NZ to get it down to track and traceable levels. Yes no accompanied freight would have led to shortages; yes the quarantine arrangements would take a lot of admin; yes the even longer lockdown would have been expensive; yes we would still be in the same position now. But: given where we are now, those costs might have been less than those we have incurred.

Tbf this was not something that Sage was advising at the time (and still isn't), so I don't think the govt can be blamed for not doing it! But it is worth considering, if only because these decisions may have to be made again in the future (pp reference to NZ historical background being relevant)

@Brissiegirl some countries won't even be able to provide accurate numbers and it does seem to if hit europe pretty bad compared to other places , we may learn more jn years to come as to why
What country are you in ?

From what I was reading today, look at how the UK are deciding to overwrite Pfizer's recommendations on the 2nd dose and can you say that the UK's handling of this is in any way competant

@resstart2020 you realise a non existent economy also costs lifes ? You do have to balance both thats just the way it is .

@Brissiegirl you still haven't said what country you are in
Some scientists say this is the way to go , time will tell if its a good idea

@Brissiegirl do I think they have got everything right no , but they have got some things and each country is unique in its own way
So what might be right for one country may not be for another
Again what country are you in and what vaccine are you using ?

I suppose that's the question though - yes a long lockdown to eradicate would have been very expensive, but then again so has the current approach turned out to be. Would we now be better off (both economically and health wise) if we'd tried the 'close borders plus lockdown' route?

I appreciate it would have been likely to lead to shortages if all freight had to be unaccompanied. Is one reason we couldn't have done it that we would have had food and medicine shortages with very strict border controls?

Canada and using the Pfizer vaccine

@Aixenprovence yes that would be a factor plus I think it was too widespread already , cases may if not been high in feb but we wasn't doing lots of tests
Personally i do think maybe the whole world should of shut borders for holidays etc for a month or so whilst each tried to contain it right at the beginning
But I think the who advised against this at first , nz did totally the right thing for their country and their circumstances
Australia haven't done too badly either tbf

@Brissiegirl i have family in canada
And have been one of your lakes you can fit england into x amount if times .
Re : vaccine only time will tell if right decision but I think we will heavily lean on oxford now approved
I would like to see them follow pfizer dose regime and do think its a risk but don't fully understand and would hope that those who have decided to do this know better than me and from what I understand even with its correct use we have no comeback ( or is that fake news )

"@Aixenprovence yes that would be a factor plus I think it was too widespread already , cases may if not been high in feb but we wasn't doing lots of tests"

Yes, it probably was quite widespread, though presumably you can always eradicate eventually with closed borders if you lock down for long enough? - as another pp said, positive test results did seem to fall pretty low in the summer. Would it with hindsight have been that much more expensive than what we now have, with furlough extended to April, lost tax revenue from continuing hospitality closure, etc?

As a matter of interest, why don't we go for 2 week quarantine for everyone entering now (secured quarantine I mean, with security guards) and no accompanied freight? Is it, again, the potential food/meds/other vital supplies including manufacturing supplies shortage issue?

@Aixenprovence

Regarding returning citizens back to Aus, there are less flights coming in and out of Australia and due to social distancing the flight will be operating at a lot less capacity. The cost of the flights may also be prohibitive to people trying to come back into the country.

Space within medi-hotels is also limited and the cost of stay is now to be paid for by the individual.

Thanks take the reins - so do Australian nationals effectively have to get in a queue to be allowed to fly back in? (assuming they can afford the flight and quarantine, that is). How does it work, I wonder - do they apply to the Home Office for a date on which they're allowed to arrive?

(Just wondering how that would translate to UK if it wanted to try it - obviously the numbers would be larger but maybe we also have more unused hotels!)

@Aixenprovence look at how people were concerned when france closed borders for 24 hrs
I don't think summer hols were a good idea and think europe should of all agreed to stop them
And yes quarantine in hotel should of been enforced for people coming in but i suppose then we never knew how quick we would have a vaccine so could if been indefinitely
I would like struct quarantine or shut borders for holidays etc now though
Seems wrong that half the country can't see their families or travel out there area but people can still fly in
And especially as we now have couple vaccines

@Aixenprovence

Thanks take the reins - so do Australian nationals effectively have to get in a queue to be allowed to fly back in? (assuming they can afford the flight and quarantine, that is). How does it work, I wonder - do they apply to the Home Office for a date on which they're allowed to arrive?

(Just wondering how that would translate to UK if it wanted to try it - obviously the numbers would be larger but maybe we also have more unused hotels!)

There are limited flights and only a certain amount allowed into aus daily. So you take a chance and book a flight and then usually get bumped and have to book another flight and get bumped again. And on it goes - for months sometimes. We can't leave Australia without an exemption from the government and they are very rarely given. While I think it's been well handled in aus, I fee trapped and can't fly back to the UK (or anywhere for that matter) at short notice in an emergency. It's scary.

[quote Bellieberg]@GoldenLabbie I agree - we're an island and could and should have done the same.[/quote]
Not completely an island. The UK has a land border with Republic of Ireland. NZ is a few hours by plane from any other nation.

Much harder to enforce the kind of rules NZ had in a place like the UK.

God was spotted on South Island in March. A kiwi asked him what he was doing there. "Working from home" was the reply.

Love it