To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

@TheOneLeggedJockey can I just say how much I love your username?!

Thanks - (re-)watched the movie over Christmas, and thought it was time for a name-change.

@GoldenLabbie

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

They did it properly the first hit.... we have been shambolic.....

@Australia77

This is the same as people comparing Australia, particularly Western Australia, to London. Completely different situation. They had more time to close their borders because it took longer for the virus to hit their shores. They are at the arse end of the world and not an international travel hub like London and they have made it almost impossible to travel between states in Australia and it means we haven’t been able to go home in a year and probably won’t be able to go home until 2022 unless we want to stay in a hotel prison, guarded by police or the military. Plus Australia has now backed itself into a corner where the population is terrified of even a single case and so god knows how they are going to re-open interstate borders, let alone international borders. I bloody hate Australia at the moment, particularly Western Australia. They are completely happy in their little bubble and have no consideration for anyone else in the world. I have nothing to say about New Zealand other than it is even more isolated than Australia and they will be relying on other countries’ vaccines to get themselves out of this.

Wow. Why exactly do you hate australia?! What would consideration for the rest of the world look like? Allowing the virus to run rampant? I am not entirely sure how that would help you.

The only thing Australia currently needs to do is work out how to get all its citizens stuck overseas home which it should have done a year ago (and then perhaps compensate them for the trauma caused) Are you as angry at Taiwan? Or Vietnam? Or Hawaii? Or even... the Isle of Man who has employed the same techniques with great success. Or are you misplacing your anger which should be strongly directed at YOUR government who keeps telling you how brilliant Britain is while simultaneously fucking it over
Australia has been involved in vaccine production. NZ will be paying into it. It’s not just sitting there waiting for people to provide. But with a population of only a few million as everyone keeps reminding us then they obviously haven’t got the same capacity as the UK to produce them. Just like every other small country in the world.

Jacinda Ardern is a legend.

I don't know that she's a legend, I think she was the right person in the right place, at the right time, with the right priorities and motivations.

I shudder to think what it would have been like with Key, Bridges, or Collins at the helm. The story would have been very, very different. (And none of it their fault, of course.)

We've had 'British exceptionalism', 'arrogance' and constant comments about how nz has done it right whilst the whole of Europe has done it wrong. That is arrogance. Just be pleased your specific set of circumstances mean it is easy to keep the numbers down without looking down your nose on other countries?

I have seen no evidence whatsoever of anyone looking down their noses at the UK. However, whether you agree or not, 'British exceptionalism' and 'arrogance' are rife on MN threads - including this one. Most of the comments about how NZ has done it right appear to be from people who are living elsewhere. The UK got it badly wrong, and continue to do so, mostly the fault of the government, but many of its citizens have also played their part.

'Jacinda Ardern is a legend.'

Yes, yes she is. The geographical isolated location, population size and density all absolutely irrelevant. All hail Jacinda 🙄

The UK got it badly wrong, and continue to do so, mostly the fault of the government, but many of its citizens have also played their part.

Do you acknowledge that it was likely impossible to do the same as NZ? Or if we could when should initial lockdown have occurred?

Do you also know that we had a huge reduction in case rate after first peak? What was the difference between this rate of reduction and other countries

I do get the sense people hang around to put the boot in. Not sure why.

I shudder to think what it would have been like with Key, Bridges, or Collins at the helm. The story would have been very, very different. (And none of it their fault, of course.)

This is a really key point, because with different leadership, and perhaps muddied communications (and other concerted efforts taken), we’d have ended up just like the countries that have not been successful.

And this is in spite of our geographical and population-based advantages.

We could (very) easily be in exactly the same boat as everyone else, believe me.

Once the virus is in and spreading, that’s it.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Jacinda Ardern is a legend.'

Yes, yes she is. The geographical isolated location, population size and density all absolutely irrelevant. All hail Jacinda 🙄

Those things are clearly relevant and I’m not sure we could have achieved zero covid in the same way, however I’m quite sure plenty of governments with those advantages would have managed to mess it up. She didn’t, so fair play.

Do you also know that we had a huge reduction in case rate after first peak? What was the difference between this rate of reduction and other countries

We got the rate down.....and then we ate out to help out, went on holidays, took a long time to get track and trace up and running and.....look where we are now.

@chomalungma

Do you also know that we had a huge reduction in case rate after first peak? What was the difference between this rate of reduction and other countries

We got the rate down.....and then we ate out to help out, went on holidays, took a long time to get track and trace up and running and.....look where we are now.

Yes but there’s no doubt we could do the same reduction

Aus and NZ people aren’t made of sterner stuff.

We just didn’t exit situation at zero. Not sure if it was possible

But we had done six months and maybe another 4 to get there. Maybe possible Idk

@GetOffYourHighHorse

I am curious then why you think the UK has some of the highest Covid deaths / death rates in the world? Was it inevitable? And why did other countries with comparable population densities do much better ?

You seem very bitter @GetOffYourHighHorse

If it’s any consolation, Boris would have done just as shambolic a job, if he’d been in charge in NZ.

So I am a New Zealand that has spent most of my life in England specifically South East England. I have relatives who have never been out of NZ other that perhaps Aussie who gasp and say how badly we (and the rest of the world) are dealing with Covid. Then I have relatives who have traveled further than their nose and know how crowded and densely populated other parts of the world are. New Zealanders can be so insular sometimes. Closing borders is easier when your closet neighbour is 2500 miles away!

New Zealander and closest

I have a friend who is a Kiwi, who travelled there for Xmas. They spent a small fortune getting there (because there are so few flights), and then had to quarantine - at £113 per night - for 14 days in a hotel (that they couldn't choose). They were tested numerous times, and couldn't leave if they tested positive. They also had to show a negative test to get on a plane. AND they had to be a NZ citizen to even be allowed in.

Also bear in mind the small population on NZ. This idea that we could scale up the kind of things NZ have been doing outlined above is risible, though that doesn't stop people advocating that we do this in the UK. That we also close down just about everything including transport, have a 16 hour a day curfew and close all schools indefinitely as well.

You have to also remember they are tiny by comparison, they are in the middle of nowhere and isolated from the rest of the world.
They would not have has the same results if had been in our geographic or economic position.

Without being rude, they're a backwater, we're in the middle of everything.

Yup. Look at Singapore and see how well they’ve contained it. I really despair to be honest. Some People here just don’t give a fuck. They really couldn’t give a shit.

Of course there are crucial differences in population sizes, proximity to other countries and population density. But to my mind the key differences have been in 1)leadership.
Boris dithered, shook hands with people and speculated about herd immunity. Jacinda was clear, decisive, consistent and driven by science.
2) people's willingness to sacrifice short term plans like trips abroad and parties. I have been gobsmacked reading Mumsnet with the amount of threads about holidays to Europe and beyond and about ways of circumventing restrictions for social gatherings. Living through long and severe lockdown in Melbourne we had to sacrifice our immediate short term social plans for the greater good. Even where this caused huge pain or disappointment.

@lioncitygirl

Yup. Look at Singapore and see how well they’ve contained it. I really despair to be honest. Some People here just don’t give a fuck. They really couldn’t give a shit.

The Japanese government dithered as much as Boris et al and didn’t do anything decisive (they legally cannot mandate a lockdown), didn’t test, didn’t close the schools for very long, don’t do the WFH culturally...

And came through with relatively few deaths. They did near fuck all, so we don’t really know what is effective.

NZ aren't the only country who've done much better than us. Practically every nation has done a much better job than us. Density/population size/distance to nearest neighbour/demographics don't explain our p* poor record compared to other countries. This is entirely the fault of incompetence in our government.

@ejhhhhh

NZ aren't the only country who've done much better than us. Practically every nation has done a much better job than us. Density/population size/distance to nearest neighbour/demographics don't explain our p* poor record compared to other countries. This is entirely the fault of incompetence in our government.

Eh UK isn’t even in the top ten in terms of per capita deaths. Not even the worst in Europe fwiw

@ejhhhhh maybe you want to look at recent stats for that as lots have done worse especially when you look at per capita
Obvioulsly higher populations will have more deaths
Not that its a competition but at least get facts right , this virus has been devastating for a lot of countries