To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

We've had 'British exceptionalism', 'arrogance' and constant comments about how nz has done it right whilst the whole of Europe has done it wrong.

This. I'm glad New Zealand were able to make the most of their hand and close shop. I'm glad my dh's family is safe. I'm sure Gavi are glad that you managed to whip around to chip in some picket change while you get bored of the coronavirus news. But it's a bloody joke to pretend that you achieved all this on the back of the superior quality of your average kiwi.

Pocket change

Lockdown by what date? I’m ready to be convinced just want someone to use numbers to do it

We had infection rates in the 100s in July August, so If LD had lasted into September, then a working TnT introduced (not giving it to a failed Con MPs wife) an easing of restrictions but keeping pubs shut & no holidays abroad, internal travel restrictions... we might not have been a NZ but we wouldn't have 1000 people a day dying either.

We are now on a curve that will lead to 100k (CV only) deaths by the end of January and it wont stop there.

@MarshaBradyo

Cornetto do you think we could have done the same as NZ? Lockdown by what date?

I’m ready to be convinced just want someone to use numbers to do it.

No I don’t think we could have done what NZ did; we haven’t got the geographical advantage or the public appetite for it.

I do think quicker, shorter lockdowns (multiple times as winter took hold) would have worked with a government willing to impose them immediately when advised to. It’s also possible this could have been used regionally (much like what we’re seeing now tbh). The difference is the rate of infections is now out of control and it will be difficult to get back on top of that without extreme restrictions imho. I can’t back that up with numbers but like every step of this pandemic has shown, you just can’t predict an unknown.

There’s no question of whether or not we do anything now because if decisions aren’t made at governmental level they will be made at ground level in hospitals as they have to budget their resources. There’s no option left to do nothing even if those options are pushed far enough down the food chain to be highly unpalatable.

We have never agreed on the eradication goal but for us to live alongside it without effective treatments at an early stage or vaccines we needed to be much more cautious of the numbers where they rose. The scientific advisors (people we’ve got in this position for this exact purpose) have been ignored and put on hold multiple times over the last year. Maybe they have been right - we’ll never know because their advice wasn’t acted on when it was given.

The problem is there’s no majority public appetite for any option and deep divisions. This is where we need decisive leadership and have none. Whatever path is chosen needs to be implemented with determination and the acceptance that you can’t keep everyone happy all of the time sometimes the balance just has to tip.

This virus has become political.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'There’s always a lot of bad feeling towards NZ ( and Aus) for doing so well in terms of dealing with Covid. I can never understand it.'

There isn't bad feeling, only pointing out the variables. Our very own Isles of Scilly and the Isle of Man have a very low incidence. Same government. I'm pleased for anyone who isn't struggling and suffering.

We've had 'British exceptionalism', 'arrogance' and constant comments about how nz has done it right whilst the whole of Europe has done it wrong. That is arrogance. Just be pleased your specific set of circumstances mean it is easy to keep the numbers down without looking down your nose on other countries?

I’m from the Uk, as is all my family( although I currently reside in Aus) I wish nothing more for the Uk to have handled this well. I wish that my family could go about their lives as normal. I am not looking down my nose at other countries. I have said on previous threads about how Australia has handled it and how there was a large amount of luck involved that their fuck ups haven’t resulted in what is currently going on in the uk.

On these threads there is always comments about how it doesn’t matter that NZ has suppressed covid, that their economy is fucked no matter what and that ( insert made up percentage here) of their economy is tourist based.

You may not feel like that but there are several mumsnetters who want nothing more for NZ and Aus to fail.

NZ has done it right for their country.

Lockdown by what date? I’m ready to be convinced just want someone to use numbers to do it

In Melbourne we had 725 new cases on August 6......Schools closed again and the restrictions were much tougher than the first lockdown. It went longer and harder than we had imagined. It was horrible and people were unhappy at the heavy-handed rules and loss of work and had so many MH issues.

August 2 in the UK saw 743 new cases......But instead of a second lockdown people were eating out, travelling to and from the UK on holiday (and returning so they could avoid quarantine). Even those who complied seemed to search for exceptions. That was the time when the UK needed a second ‘lockdown’. All non-essential travel should have been discouraged, schools should have stayed shut, fines for not complying with gathering numbers, no eating at restaurants, mandatory masks.

Meanwhile, from Melbourne, your lives seemed so much more pleasant than ours (night curfew, one hour of exercise a day, no school - it was draconian and unpopular here and everyone seemed angry /depressed).

But it was clear to me speaking with family in UK and reading Mumsnet, mainstream media and social media, that the denial and complacency in the UK was never going to end well ......

eg ‘the rule of six’ when we had ‘only your own household which may mean you are alone‘ (bubbles for singles happened much later here).

UK had ‘pubs closing early at 10pm’ and we had ‘you need to be in your own home by 8pm’.

UK had ‘don’t travel to other tier areas’ and we had ‘no travel further than 5kms from home’.

@jasjas1973 and @Cornettoninja I agree with you both.

It’s easy to say woulda shoulda coulda - things might have been better with a different leader than BJ but this was new for every govt, and as a PP said, advice from WHO was changing during the year. Sometimes I think leaders are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

My thoughts are with you all - stay safe and look after your loved ones.

It’s absolutely ridiculous to compare NZ to Britain. It’s an isolated island with few inhabitants and hardly any international flights!

Hawaii is also doing very well when you compare to the American mainland. I wonder why 🤔

Hawaii self quarantine people as they come in and police it.

@Mypathtriedtokillme

Hawaii self quarantine people as they come in and police it.

The point is that being an isolated island with few international links in the middle of the ocean makes it much easier to contain the virus.

... just like NZ

I think one of the largest factors - which couldn't be replicated here in the UK (perhaps until next time) is that NZ had an extremely successful approach to the Spanish Flu 100 years ago, doing largely what it did here, quarantining itself and acting as a shield to Pacific Island neighbours (which iirc were protected by navy boats preventing any landings from aboad).

This was taught to us with pride from a young age and therefore there was already a population which valued the ability to close borders to a pandemic. This included Jacinda and most members of government. I remember there was actually a certain level of anger and disbelief when we didn't close our border during Swine Flu. Jacinda and co would have remember this also.

I think the unsaid factor here is that closing borders was seen as a positive measure in NZ, whilst it was seen as "racist" and "Brexity" in the UK. The fear of appearing racist and too apart from Europe was seen in the UK's early reluctance to act and also in some of the early responses here to any suggestions we close, or even just stop flights from China. The previous Brexit debate fed into this in a way which was unhelpful and totally irrelevant to the facts at hand.

TLDR: NZ was ready for this for over 100 years and the UK was too preoccupied about appearing "racist" and endorsing some sort of hard Brexit to take any useful action whatsoever.

Heartbreaking to see how we could have been living, how many deaths were unnecessary, how much suffering and debilitating illness could have been avoided.

we are still letting foreigners in, they have to self isolate after they've got to their home/hotel via public transport. Nothingis policed it's our own fault. NZ & Oz even when they let their own people back made them stay in hotels so they could be monitored

I am not shocked. Krisakabusi post summed it up. If people stick 2 fingers up at authority then you reap what you sow. Things are worse than April and until we get mass vaccinated things will not improve unless people start following these rules and adopting the attitude of it won't happen to me.

This is the same as people comparing Australia, particularly Western Australia, to London. Completely different situation. They had more time to close their borders because it took longer for the virus to hit their shores. They are at the arse end of the world and not an international travel hub like London and they have made it almost impossible to travel between states in Australia and it means we haven’t been able to go home in a year and probably won’t be able to go home until 2022 unless we want to stay in a hotel prison, guarded by police or the military. Plus Australia has now backed itself into a corner where the population is terrified of even a single case and so god knows how they are going to re-open interstate borders, let alone international borders. I bloody hate Australia at the moment, particularly Western Australia. They are completely happy in their little bubble and have no consideration for anyone else in the world. I have nothing to say about New Zealand other than it is even more isolated than Australia and they will be relying on other countries’ vaccines to get themselves out of this.

I really don’t think you can compare NZ with the UK. Our handling was shambolic at best but NZ is not comparable in terms of population size, location, financial market prominence - Jacinda did a great job but it’s really not the same.

Auckland has a population of 1.7 million people. That is a well populated city with a range of housing, including some crowded houses.

There have been 25 deaths in New Zealand.

They are doing something right. Even with all the advantages of being a small island.

@chomalungma

Auckland has a population of 1.7 million people. That is a well populated city with a range of housing, including some crowded houses.

There have been 25 deaths in New Zealand.

They are doing something right. Even with all the advantages of being a small island.

They did what was right for them. But population-wise Auckland is still tiny and does not have the kind of international links that megacities do.

@helloxhristmas

Their economy has gone to shut and they can't leave the country, we can't visit family there and can't see them opening the borders anytime soon.

Agree - and while JA is the face of socialism their economy is shot. I can go and visit my 94 year old mum in NZ if I could bear and afford the extra time of 2 weeks quarantine (And the $3100 fee). Yes, I’ve seen my NZ family celebrate Christmas and new year as normal from afar and it feels like we’re in a completely different universe. It’s ridiculous to compare though.

As I understand it, the NZ economy is somewhat less shot than the UK one at the minute. . .

NZ's miles from anywhere with a population smaller than Scotland's. It would be amazing if things did not look "normal" there.

@mbosnz

As I understand it, the NZ economy is somewhat less shot than the UK one at the minute. . .

This.

And people are still conveniently ignoring the fact that if NZ had taken the UK or US approach of delaying, faffing, and half-heartedly locking down, COVID would have swept right through, infecting hundreds of thousands and killing who knows how many.

Our approach has worked for us.

@TheOneLeggedJockey can I just say how much I love your username?!

If the NZ economy is shot, what is the word we should use for the UK one? Fucked?

Given a certain degree of self interest in both, I hope we both recover, along with all the other economies in this global state we live in now! Even if you're an island, you ain't no island, we're all interdependent to some extend and in one way or another.

If the NZ economy is shot, what is the word we should use for the UK one? Fucked?

Depressing all round. I don’t actually think NZ economy has done badly.

extent. Shit.