To be confused by the rude email

[Farontothemaddingcrowd]

I got married in a lovely church on the 19th and the ceremony was beautiful. 4 days before the wedding we received the invoice through the post with details of how to pay by cheque. The invoice did say that payment should be made prior to the wedding. As we don’t use cheques, dp (now DH) contacted the church treasurer to ask for the bank details. He emailed them over and said that he would amend the invoice. This was on the 16th. DH wanted to confirm the bank details before we sent the transfer over (as a fraud protection measure- as emails can be intercepted etc) so we waited for the invoice to arrive. Nothing further was mentioned and we had the ceremony, a short honeymoon followed immediately by Christmas.
On Boxing Day DH emailed the church as we hadn’t received a new invoice, asking if we could confirm verbally the details for payment. The vicar responded to say that this should have been paid before the wedding and that we could drop cash off at the rectory. DH explained that we had only actually received the invoice on the 15th and we had requested a new invoice as we wanted confirmation of the bank details. As the church wanted payment we transferred the money there and then.

The church treasurer has emailed to say he had needed to ‘calm down’ because he was so angry. He insinuated that we were ridiculous to want verbal or posted confirmation of the bank details and said that he had never agreed to send a new invoice out. He said it was unreasonable that we had taken ten days to pay (those ten days included our wedding, honeymoon and Christmas). He said that his son was Vice President of cyber security for a bank and we did not need to confirm the bank details in an email. His tone was really abrupt and I was really upset tbh, we were happy to pay well in advance, but the church sent the invoice out very late, with incorrect details. We made a payment when WE chased it on Boxing Day and that payment would have cleared faster than a cheque would have done.
AIBU to think we should have had longer to pay an invoice - the invoice arrived on the 15th and we didn’t have the bank details emailed until the day after and we were then waiting for the amended email to arrive. I don’t know if I’ve explained it very well - but I feel like the unnecessarily rude tone, when we’ve now already paid, is upsetting and casts a shadow over a lovely day. DH works for a bank and is probably extra cautious regarding cyber security but I think he was right to ask for verbal or posted confirmation before we sent over a large amount of money.

@justanotherneighinparadise

I’d make a complaint to be honest. They’ll be someone higher up the chain (God maybe?) that you can explain it to and say that the tone of the treasurer was uncalled for and has tainted your relationship with the church. They’re running a business after all. How about some customer service.

No, they are not running a business.

Very sorry but saying they were amending the invoice to me does not mean issuing you a new one but rather marking their records that you’re paying by bank transfer.

As you have paid up now, I don’t see why it was necessary for parties to have words. I’d just brush it off now and move on

Most churches don't charge long term parshioners btw.

C of E do
It is a fixed price nationally
I was previously on the PCC and still paid in full.
We did get wonderful flowers done with massive arches for which we paid a tiny amount of money (they were left at the church unlike the unbelievably rude people to take them home which still shocks me)

It is slightly cheaper if you both live in the parish due to bans

Bluessinger has it. You may be very to the letter with your paperwork and cybersecurity checks, which is a good thing, but you're lacking in the communication department, certainly with the older generation. They could have acted differently, but ultimately it stemmed from your behaviour. Just leave this, unpicking this a million times over won't help.

@Farontothemaddingcrowd

I wasn’t keen to carry £620 in cash tbh but we could have done that I suppose as well. It was just a misunderstanding I think. I didn’t ‘rock up’ to my wedding thanks - all the money was there in a separate account and I had absolutely every intention of paying them.

Church needs to get up to date or it will have to be completing money laundering forms for large cash deposited. There are security reasons not to have cash in the church and cheques are not common payment methods and are being phased out. All churches can accept bank payments and that is how they have to go.

YANBU. Was just a miscommunication from all sides, you were right to try and check to make sure the money was going to the right place. He needs to work on his tone while irritated.

I've seen several scams where fake invoices are sent out, including large organisations who have lost huge sums of money this way. You were not unreasonable to want to verify them. However, I would have thought a phone call would have been sufficient authentication.
They seemed to have invoiced you very late indeed, even for my Zoom exercise classes I get a month or so to pay!

Does it matter?

It’s paid, it’s done. It’s over.

This sounds like two pompous men trying to out cyber security each other tbh. Your tone doesn't sound great in writing, nor does the treasurers - but you've paid it now, forget about it and move on.

To those saying they are not running a business I would say how have they become the richest landowner in the country, it’s a business like any other otherwise why are they charging for their service

In my head, I see a new young vicar who has asked the treasurer, who’s been doing the treasuring for 40 years, why he can’t cope with a bank transfer, and the treasurer, in his dudgeon, has taken it out on you. But perhaps that’s The Vicar of Dibley.

@SarahAndQuack

The church is very much a business. Only an idiot would think otherwise.

They wax about the evils of zero-hour contracts, but they hire staff and give them zero hour contracts. They drag Amazon through the mud for paying tiny taxes, yet they have massive investments in Amazon in order to grow their wealth. I could go on if you like?

The church may do a lot of good with their money, but they are a giant business and the are not always ethical or upfront about what they do.

DH wanted to confirm the bank details before we sent the transfer over (as a fraud protection measure- as emails can be intercepted etc)

Not sure that I am really following this. Having asked for the account number and sort code in order to do a bank transfer instead of sending a cheque, 'DH' thought that the email containing that information might have been intercepted and the account details changed ?

I get the concern for getting the details right. In this situation I would transfer 1p and ask for confirmation that that has been received ok before transferring the balance.

Waiting for a 'correct' invoice is a tad spurious when the terms clearly said payment in advance. Likewise, Being on honeymoon etc is really no excuse when the terms are payment in advance. It's really not fair for an organisation whose admin is done largely by volunteers to have to chase you for payment. You had everything you needed to pay up on the spot. No excuse for a delay.

As for training in cyber security: this is a text book example only of what not to do.

My tone in an AIBU post is obviously different to my tone in an email to the treasurer. I was really apologetic in the email. But I don’t think my tone is too awful here. I have tried to take on board what posters have said and I’ll just apologise and move on

Depending on your future needs of the church in question, I'd be tempted to send a rather scathing email in response.

I don't think they were rude - I think they were volunteers who were shocked.

You were asked to pay by cheque. If you are so very knowledgeable about banking, how is it you were unable to do this? It's not hard. Even if you don't have a cheque book, you could arrange for one to be sent to you, or even for your bank to issue a cheque. Obviously, I see that you thought a bank transfer might be easier, but clearly, you were wrong. The polite thing to do in that situation is to accept you should go with the payment method suggested, or decline the whole thing.

If you get married in the C of E, you usually have to show a connection to the church - either a historical attachment or residency. The reason for this is that many people who are not at all religious want to marry in a church (especially if that church is pretty). Spiritually, this might be fine. God welcomes everyone. But practically, it requires a cash outlay. The C of E does not cover its costs with weddings. I have lived in places where we knew that each wedding cost money to the church, despite the amount the couple in question paid.

It's unlikely they are getting stressed about money because they want to be unkind. They may just be really worried about money. If you actually want to be part of their church, why not offer to help out and sort out their internet banking? That way you could solve the problem for others coming after.

£620!!!!! . Wow that’s shockingly expensive. Do CofE do things very differently and include many bells and whistles or was it a cathedral? Some time ago now but we “paid what we could” in an envelope the next time we went to mass. I’m shocked they were so horrid and so grabby.

Email accounts can be hacked by fraudsters - so even if you’ve requested details, there is no guarantee that they are correct. Anyway no bother now, thanks for the posts

I had to go through a lengthy security check by my bank when I set up a new payee on my phone. They were suspicious and told me bank account numbers can be changed if sent on WhatsApp. Gave me a real fright.

We have offered to help with the church WiFi (they currently have none) so hopefully we can give back in some way.

I notice that you are ignoring the questions about your previous and future relationship with the church, so I am guessing that you are not regular worshippers. Perhaps the church has been defrauded by marrying couples in the past; perhaps the vicar had told off the treasurer and he took it out on you; perhaps the the treasurer is under particular pressure as fundraising has been impossible this year and the finances are likely in a dire state.

So YANBU.

We didn’t have time to wait for a cheque book as the invoice arrived very shortly before the wedding.

I'm not talking about your tone on AIBU although that's a separate story.

The point I'm making us that you've failed to recognise that they are not as up to speed with CS as you. You can't expect everyone to know what you do and give you all options that suit you. Sometimes things have to be duscussed, in a good old fashioned way first. You could have explained at the time where you were coming from, chased up by phone, be...human?

I would risk a guess these people are from a different generation to you and you've completely failed to recognise that and adapt before your wedding. This is where the source of the problem was.

I think yanbu, there was a communication issue which wasn’t one-sided, and the treasurer has gone unnecessarily nuclear! Not nice.