Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be confused by the rude email

437 replies

Farontothemaddingcrowd · 29/12/2020 22:52

I got married in a lovely church on the 19th and the ceremony was beautiful. 4 days before the wedding we received the invoice through the post with details of how to pay by cheque. The invoice did say that payment should be made prior to the wedding. As we don’t use cheques, dp (now DH) contacted the church treasurer to ask for the bank details. He emailed them over and said that he would amend the invoice. This was on the 16th. DH wanted to confirm the bank details before we sent the transfer over (as a fraud protection measure- as emails can be intercepted etc) so we waited for the invoice to arrive. Nothing further was mentioned and we had the ceremony, a short honeymoon followed immediately by Christmas.
On Boxing Day DH emailed the church as we hadn’t received a new invoice, asking if we could confirm verbally the details for payment. The vicar responded to say that this should have been paid before the wedding and that we could drop cash off at the rectory. DH explained that we had only actually received the invoice on the 15th and we had requested a new invoice as we wanted confirmation of the bank details. As the church wanted payment we transferred the money there and then.

The church treasurer has emailed to say he had needed to ‘calm down’ because he was so angry. He insinuated that we were ridiculous to want verbal or posted confirmation of the bank details and said that he had never agreed to send a new invoice out. He said it was unreasonable that we had taken ten days to pay (those ten days included our wedding, honeymoon and Christmas). He said that his son was Vice President of cyber security for a bank and we did not need to confirm the bank details in an email. His tone was really abrupt and I was really upset tbh, we were happy to pay well in advance, but the church sent the invoice out very late, with incorrect details. We made a payment when WE chased it on Boxing Day and that payment would have cleared faster than a cheque would have done.
AIBU to think we should have had longer to pay an invoice - the invoice arrived on the 15th and we didn’t have the bank details emailed until the day after and we were then waiting for the amended email to arrive. I don’t know if I’ve explained it very well - but I feel like the unnecessarily rude tone, when we’ve now already paid, is upsetting and casts a shadow over a lovely day. DH works for a bank and is probably extra cautious regarding cyber security but I think he was right to ask for verbal or posted confirmation before we sent over a large amount of money.

OP posts:
DippidyDoDah · 30/12/2020 00:00

The treasurer was being OTT. I would want to respond with "well that's not very Christian of you, is it? You've put me off every stepping foot in that church again" but, in reality, I'd be upset for a few days and then think "dickhead".

YANBU!

Butchyrestingface · 30/12/2020 00:02

The church treasurer has emailed to say he had needed to ‘calm down’ because he was so angry. He insinuated that we were ridiculous to want verbal or posted confirmation of the bank details and said that he had never agreed to send a new invoice out. He said it was unreasonable that we had taken ten days to pay (those ten days included our wedding, honeymoon and Christmas).

Irrespective of whether anyone thinks the OP dawdled a bit or not, treasurer's response was batshit and not very Christian (to put it mildly).

Congratulations on the nuptials and don't dwell on it. Hopefully he's embarrassed by his emotional incontinence.

Nunoftheother · 30/12/2020 00:03

I would risk a guess these people are from a different generation to you and you've completely failed to recognise that and adapt before your wedding. This is where the source of the problem was.

Surely it's up to the business (i.e. the church in this case) to adapt, rather than the customer?

On-line banking is generally less time-consuming than faffing about with cheques, and there aren't charges for using it (as far as I'm aware). I'm sure if the treasurer is a volunteer they could have been offered some training if necessary (not specifically for the OP's payment, obviously).

VetiverAndLavender · 30/12/2020 00:07

Eh, it couldn't have been that urgent that they get the payment beforehand, or surely someone would have noticed and contacted you. I don't see what the problem was, honestly. Maybe they have a policy of securing their payment beforehand to prevent people from trying to get away without paying, but you were honourable. They have their money, and it was ridiculous of them to act angry with you when it was their own oversight that allowed you to be married before paying.

This kind of thing does churches no favours at a time when they should be doing all they can to project a positive image and encourage people to become more involved with the church!

Ayupmeduck · 30/12/2020 00:07

To be honest I would have just given them the cash in an envelope to save the faff.

For what it's worth you do seem to get some very sanctimonious people in some CoE churches. We got married 10 years ago and were told we couldn't video/take photos, had to leave the all of the flower arrangements behind in church etc etc.

Anyway you sound like a genuine person so don't let it overshadow your wedding and taint the church's connection to your special day. They've got their money. I would not give it any more headspace, move on and enjoy married life.

PurplePansy05 · 30/12/2020 00:09

Surely it's up to the business (i.e. the church in this case) to adapt, rather than the customer?

Do you recognise it's the CoE not Primark?

Divebar · 30/12/2020 00:10

You could have taken the cash on the day surely if you couldn’t drop it off before. The best man or groom could have taken it... it’s hardly a huge amount. You sound pretty unreasonable expecting to receive a second invoice in the post near Christmas. If we all did that for every transaction nothing would be paid in a timely fashion.

maddening · 30/12/2020 00:11

I think my reply would be along the lines of how unnecessarily unpleasant their latest communication had been and how their approach really sours your relationship with their church.

berrygirlie · 30/12/2020 00:11

Do you recognise it's the CoE not Primark?

They're still providing a service. It would be easier for them to get more experienced with online banking on top of that.

TableFlowerss · 30/12/2020 00:11

YABU

If you have can involve with the details on that is all the proof you need to say you don’t your part.

You didn’t need another invoice for the same information. Had it not reached them via a bank transfer, then they’d be at fault for giving you the wrong details. You could easily get a copy from your bank to say where you sent the payment.

ThinkingIsAllowed · 30/12/2020 00:11

yanbu

blubberyboo · 30/12/2020 00:12

I work in a bank and it is common fraud for seemingly genuine emails to be intercepted or drafted to look genuine with bank details. It happens with solicitor emails to clients looking for house deposit monies to be transferred and lots of ppl have been defrauded of lots of money
So you were right to try to independently verify the details .. eg by phoning the church on their published phone number not a number from the email

covidaintacrime · 30/12/2020 00:12

it’s hardly a huge amount.

I'm looking forward to the day where I can see £620 as a small amount.

SarahAndQuack · 30/12/2020 00:12

@Nunoftheother

I would risk a guess these people are from a different generation to you and you've completely failed to recognise that and adapt before your wedding. This is where the source of the problem was.

Surely it's up to the business (i.e. the church in this case) to adapt, rather than the customer?

On-line banking is generally less time-consuming than faffing about with cheques, and there aren't charges for using it (as far as I'm aware). I'm sure if the treasurer is a volunteer they could have been offered some training if necessary (not specifically for the OP's payment, obviously).

It won't be the church as a business, though.

It will be Mr Jones, aged 78, who is volunteering. Or Mrs Smith, who's 77. Neither of them will have had any training, and they will be trying very hard to keep the church open. Chances are they are also the people who go in and clean, do the flowers, do the parish newsletter, and sit on the parish council.

If the Church were acting as a business, fine. But it generally doesn't, at this level. It's a registered charity (whether or not it should be is a matter for debate).

But no, very few churches have money to pay to train treasurers - if they even have a specific individual to do that job, rather than a group of fluctuating volunteers covering everything.

Treemama · 30/12/2020 00:13

OP it's sorted now. All paid. Stop worrying about that and enjoy your honeymoon period.

Divebar · 30/12/2020 00:13

It’s not the end of the world though ... just an annoyance. I wouldn’t like people to think badly of me but I dare say you won’t run into this person much. ( assuming you’re not regular church goers)

ZoeTurtle · 30/12/2020 00:14

How can anybody comment on the tone/rudeness of the email when you haven't posted it?

blubberyboo · 30/12/2020 00:14

All the people that say you should have battered on and sent the the funds should actually do some research on fraud before they willy nilly send funds on the strength of an email.

covidaintacrime · 30/12/2020 00:15

How can anybody comment on the tone/rudeness of the email when you haven't posted it?

Even this; he had needed to ‘calm down’ because he was so angry. is unreasonable to me.

DorisDaisyMay · 30/12/2020 00:16

Yanbu
Everyone who knows about the kind of person/people you are dealing with (me!) can reassure you that they have the people skills of sticks. Unfortunately, their old fashioned and out dated mode of working, is perpetuated by the echo chamber of 65+ white middle class people who they are on the parish council with - who still all use cheques!!

Do not waste another moment of thought. You are married. It is paid.

PurplePansy05 · 30/12/2020 00:17

They're still providing a service. It would be easier for them to get more experienced with online banking on top of that.

But this is not how things work in reality and OP has failed to recognise this and adapt, this is the point.

In the ideal world everyone would be up to speed, CS compliant and there'd be hardly any invoice fraud, but alas it is what it is.

honeylulu · 30/12/2020 00:17

You are entirely correct to want to call to confirm the bank details are correct. I work for a solicitors firm and if we don't do that it's a gross misconduct offence. Our payments in and out have been intercepted and fraudulently acquired on a few occasions over the years before this procedure became compulsory.

However your husband didn't need to wait for an amended invoice. Fair enough the bank details weren't on the original one but you'd been sent them by email. You or he should have made effort to call and verify them. You didn't need to wait for an amended invoice. I appreciate this isn't always easy. Our church parish office is open for two hours a week - in a Wednesday and Friday! But you could have called the vicarage. Or withdrawn and dropped off cash. (Our church asked us to bring cash to the wedding rehearsal.) So if you made no further effort prior to the wedding, it would have seemed that you weren't bothered, particularly if you aren't known to the church.

The treasurers email was unnecessarily rude though. Given that you HAD paid! It's be tempted to remind him that wrath is one of the seven deadly sins but of course you forgive him and will pray that God will too, but I'm a bit prone to be PA.

I appreciate that church treasurers and secretaries are volunteers but if they are taking on an onerous role they have a duty to do it properly, and politely. Sometimes the power seems to go to their heads. I once booked our church hall for a birthday party. I am a regular parishioner. I paid in advance the required sum of £40 plus a voluntary donation of £60. I was telephoned on Wednesday and told I would have to collect the key from the parish office on Friday between 12 and 1pm. I work full time in London and that wasn't possible. I suggested I could pick the key up from someone's house in the evening or someone could drop it to me (my house was about 200 yards from the church). Mocking laughter and "oh no dear we don't do that". I took matters into my own hands and approached the vicar (a friend) directly who was much more amenable.

Apparently when the primary school in the same road started hiring out their hall for parties with much more user friendly arrangements the church lost a lot of "business" and were very narked ...

TableFlowerss · 30/12/2020 00:19

@blubberyboo

I work in a bank and it is common fraud for seemingly genuine emails to be intercepted or drafted to look genuine with bank details. It happens with solicitor emails to clients looking for house deposit monies to be transferred and lots of ppl have been defrauded of lots of money So you were right to try to independently verify the details .. eg by phoning the church on their published phone number not a number from the email
It’s not common at all. It will happen but it’s not common.

Very unlikely that a solicitors firm hasn’t got top of the range software to prevent such situations, given the number of high volume figures and number of transactions they deal with.

cbt944 · 30/12/2020 00:20

I got married in a lovely church on the 19th and the ceremony was beautiful. 4 days before the wedding we received the invoice through the post with details of how to pay by cheque. The invoice did say that payment should be made prior to the wedding.

In between all the tittering about who has a cheque book these days and cyber security concerns, the vital point seems to be being missed. You were supposed to pay before the wedding - that was on the 19th December - and had not paid by Boxing Day - on the 26th.

You knew you were supposed to pay before the wedding. You didn't. And it's the church fellow who is 'rude' and unreasonable?

TableFlowerss · 30/12/2020 00:20

A quick phone call to make sure they match would be suffice!