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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be confused by the rude email

437 replies

Farontothemaddingcrowd · 29/12/2020 22:52

I got married in a lovely church on the 19th and the ceremony was beautiful. 4 days before the wedding we received the invoice through the post with details of how to pay by cheque. The invoice did say that payment should be made prior to the wedding. As we don’t use cheques, dp (now DH) contacted the church treasurer to ask for the bank details. He emailed them over and said that he would amend the invoice. This was on the 16th. DH wanted to confirm the bank details before we sent the transfer over (as a fraud protection measure- as emails can be intercepted etc) so we waited for the invoice to arrive. Nothing further was mentioned and we had the ceremony, a short honeymoon followed immediately by Christmas.
On Boxing Day DH emailed the church as we hadn’t received a new invoice, asking if we could confirm verbally the details for payment. The vicar responded to say that this should have been paid before the wedding and that we could drop cash off at the rectory. DH explained that we had only actually received the invoice on the 15th and we had requested a new invoice as we wanted confirmation of the bank details. As the church wanted payment we transferred the money there and then.

The church treasurer has emailed to say he had needed to ‘calm down’ because he was so angry. He insinuated that we were ridiculous to want verbal or posted confirmation of the bank details and said that he had never agreed to send a new invoice out. He said it was unreasonable that we had taken ten days to pay (those ten days included our wedding, honeymoon and Christmas). He said that his son was Vice President of cyber security for a bank and we did not need to confirm the bank details in an email. His tone was really abrupt and I was really upset tbh, we were happy to pay well in advance, but the church sent the invoice out very late, with incorrect details. We made a payment when WE chased it on Boxing Day and that payment would have cleared faster than a cheque would have done.
AIBU to think we should have had longer to pay an invoice - the invoice arrived on the 15th and we didn’t have the bank details emailed until the day after and we were then waiting for the amended email to arrive. I don’t know if I’ve explained it very well - but I feel like the unnecessarily rude tone, when we’ve now already paid, is upsetting and casts a shadow over a lovely day. DH works for a bank and is probably extra cautious regarding cyber security but I think he was right to ask for verbal or posted confirmation before we sent over a large amount of money.

OP posts:
Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 30/12/2020 10:41

I was not stalling. I trusted Dh. I wanted to pay immediately.

They have an additional 50 now and a lovely thank you card in the post.

OP posts:
DrAbbyYates · 30/12/2020 10:42

@Farontothemaddingcrowd

The church didn’t have to agree to marry us - if they only wished to marry regular parishioners that would have been fine.
No, this is not true. Part of the CofE's function as a state church is that anyone who lives in the parish or has a significant connection (including regular worship) has the right to be married there. The church would only refuse to marry you if the priest had a very good reason, for example suspecting that one of you was already married and therefore the marriage would be bigamous.
Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 30/12/2020 10:43

Well they’ve got our money now anyway.

OP posts:
Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 30/12/2020 10:44

I didn’t get the impression they were upset about that tbh as the vicar was very welcoming.

OP posts:
Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 30/12/2020 10:45

I’m now really worried about my tone and whether I come across badly Sad

OP posts:
Beautifulbonnie · 30/12/2020 10:47

@QueenoftheAir

Churches are active places of worship - not handy venues that look pretty in pictures. The churches are only still open because of the worshippers who support them all of the other days of the year.

Indeed. The OP said they had a connection to the parish, but not the actual church. If they had had a connection, none of this would have happened. The family (the OP's or her DH's) would have had a word, paid in cash, and the OP reimbursed them. I've seen this - pretty common local practice.

The OP says her DH went to school with the church warden's son, but that is not really a connection to the church or the congregation! Everything about this saga suggests that they were pretty much strangers picking a nice church in the town/village which happened to be near where the DH grew up.

Look at it from the church treasurer's point of view: these are people whom he doesn't know, they're not regular members of the congregation (nor their families either, it seems). He'd sent the invoice, specifying payment before the couple were married, and they had questioned about how to pay. But not actually paid.

Then they were married, still without actually paying the stated set fee, then they were uncontactable for 10 days, still hadn't actually paid the stated set fee.

The treasurer felt responsible for the fraud which he saw committed.

As the couple were pretty much strangers to the parish, how was the treasurer supposed to know they weren't intending not to pay? All their actions (as opposed to their words) pointed to them not intending to pay. No attempt to get a bank-produced cheque, or paying in cash, or getting someone in the family to pay by cheque. Nothing.

When I got married at my church. Which I’ve only been going to for about 4 years. The vicar said the parish had paid for my wedding.

However it’s a very small village church. It was lovely.

Beautifulbonnie · 30/12/2020 10:51

@Farontothemaddingcrowd

Our husbands will know each other!

coldwaterfeed · 30/12/2020 10:54

YANBU, OP. The church have been incredibly disorganised and old fashioned, sending an invoice 4 days (with just cheque details!) before a wedding and expecting it to be paid before the wedding is ridiculous, standard payment terms would allow 14 or 30 days, they should have sent you the invoice weeks ago.

It sounds like this man knew he fucked up and blamed it on you.

I'm not sure why you've rewarded rudeness with an extra £50, but please don't apologise again, you did nothing wrong.

harriethoyle · 30/12/2020 10:57

Cheeky to know that you had to pay before the service but to go ahead anyway, having not done so. You're lucky the vicar married you. No good reason for not taking cash. YABU I'm afraid.

wonkylegs · 30/12/2020 10:59

Mark it down as a miscommunication, apologise to keep the peace and move on
Community organisations run by volunteers can be great but can also be difficult
Communication is often not a strong point and although they are often a kind of business, professionalism isn't usually part of the deal. Sometimes people are well meaning but lack experience or knowledge and sometimes it's something else.
I used to be chair of our community centre and our treasurer was a PITA who thought he knew everything but actually knew very little and couldn't be asked / told anything even incredibly politely. He was one of the reasons I and several other members of the committee left. He 'did the job' so he could tell everybody in the village how important he was (he had business cards made up Hmm) but would only do it his way.
When we told him we needed to meet new regulations or provide accounts for grants he would tell us that we were wrong and that it was all 'stuff and nonsense' and what would us women know (yes he was also a massive masochist)
The fact that some of us in the committee were lawyers, other professionals and business owners seemed to pass him by.

Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 30/12/2020 10:59

If the vicar had told us to take cash, we would have done so. We misunderstood what the treasurer meant. Anyway they have 50 and a thank you card now.

OP posts:
Graciebobcat · 30/12/2020 10:59

They sound disorganised, but I would have just paid them as soon as they provided the bank details and not fannied around asking for further confirmation, which makes it then look like you are looking for an excuse not to pay. If they are wrong or incorrect it would then be their look out for giving you the wrong details, and in any event in online banking it tells you if the account matches the details given before you make the payment.

Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 30/12/2020 11:01

@Graciebobcat

They sound disorganised, but I would have just paid them as soon as they provided the bank details and not fannied around asking for further confirmation, which makes it then look like you are looking for an excuse not to pay. If they are wrong or incorrect it would then be their look out for giving you the wrong details, and in any event in online banking it tells you if the account matches the details given before you make the payment.
No it would not be their look out if invoice fraud had occurred - it would have been ours.
OP posts:
ThePlantsitter · 30/12/2020 11:06

OP I get it, but I think you need to give yourself a bit of a talking to. It's OK. Even if your time was off, such it probably wasn't, do you think grumpy treasurer man is examining his tone/minutae of his actions right now? I'll tell you: he isn't. Focus on your lovely new husband instead. Maybe hide the thread too, Mumsnet would have you hand yourself into the police for littering if you dropped your phone in a pond. Everyone is bored and turning your small tale of miscommunication into a CF saga. Come on now.

Nomorepies · 30/12/2020 11:07

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on the poster's request

CareBear50 · 30/12/2020 11:10

The OP has been gracious, apologised and made restitution.

We can all make mistakes or pick things up the wrong way.

some people on Mumsnet can be very ungracious at times

Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 30/12/2020 11:10

@ThePlantsitter

OP I get it, but I think you need to give yourself a bit of a talking to. It's OK. Even if your time was off, such it probably wasn't, do you think grumpy treasurer man is examining his tone/minutae of his actions right now? I'll tell you: he isn't. Focus on your lovely new husband instead. Maybe hide the thread too, Mumsnet would have you hand yourself into the police for littering if you dropped your phone in a pond. Everyone is bored and turning your small tale of miscommunication into a CF saga. Come on now.
Thank you, I needed that. Tbh I think I need to go to the GP as usually I start obsessing over things when I’m struggling mentally. MN sometimes is used as a form of self harm I think (that sounds dramatic). I’ve had a lot going on - dd waiting for CAMHS support, falling out with my mum, pushed to the limit at work, family member on my children’s dads’ side died from the virus. So I choose to focus on this because it’s smaller if that makes sense. And I genuinely think that is what is upsetting me, but I think that there is something else. It doesn’t help when people are personal and say my tone is off, or I’m rude, but I asked for that posting here and I know people might disagree with me.
OP posts:
JoeCalFuckingZaghe · 30/12/2020 11:11

A professional business would have withheld services until a payment had been made and despite what some people think the church is a business. At the time of your wedding they knew no payment had been made so for him to get so angry he needed to calm down speaks volumes about what he should have been angry about. Their own systems which are failing. At the end of the day they are a business and need to pick up their professionalism. Yes, you could have done more to process the payment but it is not unreasonable in 2020 to be unable to pay by cheque, lots of people don’t feel safe carrying such a large sum of cash around and the church is falling drastically behind if they’re struggling to accept online payments. Businesses NEED to adapt to modern times, and I’m willing to bet the bloke from the church was talking out of his arse about his “head of cyber” son, shame his family don’t have “Christian Values” as surely any devoted child of god would be willing to help his father with setting up decent systems for the church? Even you offered to assist with WiFi.

I would be tempted to pull him up on his attitude and remind him of some choice bible quotes. You were both unreasonable for not sorting it out before the wedding but his “angry” comment is unprofessional, unchristian and unnecessary. He needs to learn some customer service skills, being a church person shouldn’t he have empathy as it is?

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 30/12/2020 11:13

YABU. This should have been resolved before the wedding, why couldn't you have verbally double checked the details over the phone as soon as you got the invoice and paid there and then?

MsTSwift · 30/12/2020 11:13

I would get a cheque book though you can easily order them from the bank. Does no harm having one and would have saved you a load of aggro!

Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 30/12/2020 11:13

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

YABU. This should have been resolved before the wedding, why couldn't you have verbally double checked the details over the phone as soon as you got the invoice and paid there and then?
I’ve already answered this.
OP posts:
JohnMiddleNameRedactedSwanson · 30/12/2020 11:14

OP, hide this thread and go for a walk. Weddings and religion are catnip to MNers and the thread is going to run and run with new posters who have only read your OP. It would be almost masochistic to keep reading.

Bookworming · 30/12/2020 11:15

@MsTSwift my bank does not issue cheque books. It's a Monzo account.

Graciebobcat · 30/12/2020 11:15

Why did you need another invoice? What would stop a fraudster sending you a fraudulent invoice and why would that be more protection that receiving bank details by email and then inputting them in online banking (which automatically checks the recipient is who they say they are and that the account exists before you send payment)?

LittleBearPad · 30/12/2020 11:16

It’s a parish church, the Treasurer is a volunteer. People are about them as if their a multinational.

The cost wasn’t a surprise, the OP could have anticipated wanting to pay via transfer and asked for details in advance. If it was so important to check bank details they should have rung to do so.

You should have paid in advance of the service.

Churches and their Treasurers are under enormous pressure financially.