To be confused by the rude email

[Farontothemaddingcrowd]

I got married in a lovely church on the 19th and the ceremony was beautiful. 4 days before the wedding we received the invoice through the post with details of how to pay by cheque. The invoice did say that payment should be made prior to the wedding. As we don’t use cheques, dp (now DH) contacted the church treasurer to ask for the bank details. He emailed them over and said that he would amend the invoice. This was on the 16th. DH wanted to confirm the bank details before we sent the transfer over (as a fraud protection measure- as emails can be intercepted etc) so we waited for the invoice to arrive. Nothing further was mentioned and we had the ceremony, a short honeymoon followed immediately by Christmas.
On Boxing Day DH emailed the church as we hadn’t received a new invoice, asking if we could confirm verbally the details for payment. The vicar responded to say that this should have been paid before the wedding and that we could drop cash off at the rectory. DH explained that we had only actually received the invoice on the 15th and we had requested a new invoice as we wanted confirmation of the bank details. As the church wanted payment we transferred the money there and then.

The church treasurer has emailed to say he had needed to ‘calm down’ because he was so angry. He insinuated that we were ridiculous to want verbal or posted confirmation of the bank details and said that he had never agreed to send a new invoice out. He said it was unreasonable that we had taken ten days to pay (those ten days included our wedding, honeymoon and Christmas). He said that his son was Vice President of cyber security for a bank and we did not need to confirm the bank details in an email. His tone was really abrupt and I was really upset tbh, we were happy to pay well in advance, but the church sent the invoice out very late, with incorrect details. We made a payment when WE chased it on Boxing Day and that payment would have cleared faster than a cheque would have done.
AIBU to think we should have had longer to pay an invoice - the invoice arrived on the 15th and we didn’t have the bank details emailed until the day after and we were then waiting for the amended email to arrive. I don’t know if I’ve explained it very well - but I feel like the unnecessarily rude tone, when we’ve now already paid, is upsetting and casts a shadow over a lovely day. DH works for a bank and is probably extra cautious regarding cyber security but I think he was right to ask for verbal or posted confirmation before we sent over a large amount of money.

OP if you come back - for future reference - transfer a small amount like £1 or £10 to the account details and ask for the payee to confirm it was correct. Then transfer the rest. Assuming your account doesn't use COP.

One of my accounts uses COP, the other doesn't. I was actually quite surprised as I thought it was a legal requirement, but fortunately the one that does is the one I use most often for bank transfers.

I also agree that it's a bit odd to say you don't use cheques. I only use about one a year but it's hardly a hardship to keep a cheque book in a drawer for the odd time I need it.

I used to manage a place that held wedding ceremonies. We took a small deposit and the balance had to be paid 6 weeks before the big day. All our paperwork stated the terms and conditions as well as the acceptable methods to make payment which included, cheque and card payment in person or over the phone. The vast majority of couples had to be chased for payment and most put it off until the rehearsal just 1 - 2 weeks before the ceremony.

On more than one occasion I have called a couple less than 24 hours before the ceremony to tell them the wedding would be cancelled if they did not make an immediate payment.

It was a prestigious venue and these were couples who had presumably paid out many thousands for their receptions, clothes etc as well as paying for the registrars to attend and carry out the ceremony yet did not seem to place any importance on paying for the actual venue where the ceremony was going to take place.

You were the ones getting married, the onus was on you to ensure everything was paid for at the correct time. However justified you think you were in delaying payment, the treasurer has heard it all before and that's why he was fed up. I can't believe the wedding went ahead when you hadn't paid.

By the way, the banking rules changed a few months ago and now when you make a payment the bank has to check that the name and number on the destination account matches, so unless fraudsters had gone to the trouble of opening an account in the name of the church, you could have safely made payment on the details you were given three days before the wedding.

Well it's a storm in a teacup isnt it.

You are ridiculous. You didn't pay a bill you were supposed to pay before you used the facility. Then you make them jump through hoops chase payment A very unlikely fraud candidate so my suspicions fall on your negligence and entitlement.

Ah, I'm so sorry: what you meant was, you're so important you should be able to call the shots about collecting keys. You mention how important your work in London is, so people should know to understand they must make allowances for you.

How do you not see how arrogant this is? Any normal person would ask when they could collect keys and negotiate an arrangement. If you were unable to collect the keys at the right time, you should have terminated the agreement, rather than assuming everyone would bend over backwards for you.

This is ridiculous, @SarahAndQuack. If the church is letting out its hall and taking money for it, obviously it has to make sensible arrangements for the keys. Any normal business would do that. Expecting something other than a one hour slot in the middle of the day to collect keys and offering sensible alternatives is not by any stretch of the imagination expecting them to bend over backwards or being arrogant.

A church that is reliant on help from people with attitudes like yours is in trouble.

@Palavah

YABU.

If you had already confirmed the bank details over the phone then why did you need confirmation in an email which, you have already said, can be intercepted?

Who do you bank with?

Quite. And any time I make a new payment on my banking app there's an additional layer of security to confirm account details - you put in the sort code and a/c number and it says "This account belongs to Dodgy McDodgyperson - do you wish to proceed?"

You didn't need another invoice.

You might have been busy but the Treasurer will have been too, it has been Christmas! And you're emailing and hassling for unnecessary paperwork on Boxing Day?

You knew payment was due before the wedding.
You didn't pay before the wedding.
YABU.

However, you've paid now, so I would just move on. In the interest of keeping relations civil if you are planning to have any future kids christened there, I would apologise profusely.

Agree with all the pps, as said, banks run confirmations now. I can’t believe your husband didn’t know this. Or you. There was no need to delay payment. And then blame your honey moon and Xmas, then the treasurer. You knew payment was due. You agreed to pay before the ceremony, you had the details to do so, and then didn’t.

Next time pay on time and folks won’t be rude to you.

@SpeckledyHen

OP when you set up a new payee at the bank these days the banking system runs a check to ensure that you are sending the payment to the correct account . If it can’t get a match it suggests that you contact the recipient for confirmation.

You didn’t need a new invoice (?) as you already had the bank details in writing .

You were playing for time to pay perhaps?

If an email is intercepted and the fraudsters add their details then banking will match. It will match to the account the fraudsters own account.

We’ve had this before at work. You always should check details. Always.

Fraudsters are very clever in how they do it. My experience at work is for another thread but they are very clever in what they do. All it takes is for them to intercept emails and begin communication as a middle person.

What’s the odds of them intercepting an email from the church at the exact same time it was said to be being sent over. In addition he could easily just have said to the treasurer on the phone, can you give me the bank details. There was no need for an amended invoice for goodness sake.

You were cheeky. You should have settled the debt without all this messing about. You knew the terms.

@Bluntness100

What’s the odds of them intercepting an email from the church at the exact same time it was said to be being sent over. In addition he could easily just have said to the treasurer on the phone, can you give me the bank details. There was no need for an amended invoice for goodness sake.

That is fair. The likelihood of it being a church account are probably slim but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

The easiest emails to intercept are hotmail ones. All fraudsters need to do is hack and wait for comments such as asking for bank details, transfers and cash.

I work in banking and you are being utterly ridiculous. The chance of someone “intercepting” your email about your wedding is minuscule. Yabvu and silly.

Wibbling on about fraud neither here nor there 🙄. If this was a big issue for you you should have resolved it before the wedding.

Other small business owners will understand if you’ve only ever had salaried jobs you won’t!

I wonder what sort of Mr Big cyber criminals would target a parish church.

*If an email is intercepted and the fraudsters add their details then banking will match. It will match to the account the fraudsters own account.

We’ve had this before at work. You always should check details. Always.

Fraudsters are very clever in how they do it. My experience at work is for another thread but they are very clever in what they do. All it takes is for them to intercept emails and begin communication as a middle person.*

Which is why I can't understand why people sneer at using a cheque. Give it directly to the person and ask for a receipt (or post it and ditto). You have an extra layer of security in that you could cancel it, and they shouldn't be able to pay them in after six months has passed. No vanishing into the ether!

Why didn’t your DH just double check the bank details when he was on the phone?

Amend invoice to me says note that you were paying by bank transfer.

Well it’s over now so move on.

You should have done what I do when paying a new person directly. I send a small amount to the account number they have specified then ask them to confirm that it has been received. I then send the balance.

The church may do a lot of good with their money, but they are a giant business and the are not always ethical or upfront about what they do.

There's a significant difference between the kind of hand-to-mouth survival, particularly of small village churches, and the CofE upper organisation. (ex was clergy family)

Totally agree (from experience) with what @SarahAndQuack says.

Local CofE churches are obliged to marry people, but mostly those people are not churchgoers, and have little connection to the Church. Had the OP (or her family) actually had a real connection to the church, she would have known the people in question, and would have known how to pay. And would have added a significant donation.

I wish people would read the full thread. The OP DOES have links to the church as she said upthread. Another one absolutely gobsmacked that people are so naive about cyber security!!!! The O's husband was completely right to check bank details. I can tell who has never been a victim of cyber fraud!

Also agree with the church being a business and a huge and successful one at that!

This is one if those situations where it’s a relatively minor thing but it’s really affecting you emotionally because you feel wronged - the treasurer has the “wrong” perception of you. I suspect the treasurer has had some sort of telling off about not collecting the money promptly themself, feels a bit silly, and is passing their frustration on to you.
A way to make yourself feel better about it all would be to be the bigger person, send an apology or good will gift, and think no more about it.
At our wedding some of my guests thought they had to pay for taxis (we had pre booked and paid in advance) and handed over cash! I felt awful but luckily it was only a a few pounds and they saw the funny side. My point is that at weddings emotions are always a bit heightened and misunderstandings are easily made.

You should have paid before the ceremony - I assume you paid for all of the other things for your wedding before you used them?

Do you attend this beautiful church regularly? If you are a member of the congregation, well known to the vicar and the treasurer then I should think they would have been comfortable in waiting for payment. If they have never met you before you arranged for your banns to read then perhaps they were more concerned about you settling up.

Beautiful churches are very expensive to maintain all year round and many are absolutely desperate for money - often help up by more elderly, and sometimes less well off regular church goers. It costs money to open up churches for weddings - and especially for heating at this time of the year.

Yes, the church should have behaved like a business, and cancelled your wedding when you didn't pay in advance. Then there would be no need to stress about an email over your late payment...

We have a long connection to the parish but I didn’t see that as relevant.

But obviously not actually a family connection with the actual church? It is relevant. Had you or your DH known this church and its people, you wouldn't have made the mistakes you made in toe and treatment of them.

Too many people are hypocritical about the CofE - expecting them to be a service, without offering any reciprocal commitment.

I'm atheist, and didn't marry in church, but I've seen the management of a village church from the inside.

You were totally unreasonable and the vicar had every right to be angry. You had the bank details in plenty of time to make the payment and asking for bank details in two different ways makes no sense. I cannot believe you started your married life with an unpaid church bill. If nothing else, we’re you not worried they would have prefixed to do the service.