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AIBU?

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Emotional abuse in Harry Potter

516 replies

MrsRogerLima · 29/12/2020 08:58

Don't get me wrong, I love Harry Potter but I never thought about the Ron/Hermione thing this way before and she is SO RIGHT.

AIBU to think this is irresponsible in children's literature?

www.bustle.com/articles/198364-ron-hermiones-relationship-in-harry-potter-wasnt-just-disappointing-but-dangerous

OP posts:
Googlebrained · 29/12/2020 11:01

@BrumBoo

But I think it was a definite attempt to produce a strong, talented female character who actually gets to achieve something and be involved in the adventure in the story, unlike most female characters in books I grew up with.

I think the mistake she made with Hermione was sticking to an endgame with Ron as that's how she'd 'foreshadowed' throughout the narrative. I think it would have been too brave a step in the end for her not to put them together, even though by the end of the series they evidently didn't 'fit' after everything they'd been through.

I'd like to see a smart and independent female character actually say 'you know what, I see that we have had close to a 'love connection' as you can get at this very young age, but I need to be my own person especially after years of being a mental and emotional babysitter for some boys who get most of the credit for my brilliance'. I'm not sure of I'm aware of any book where a brilliant female character isn't lessened or even destroyed by a male they fall for. Certainly not made better for having a male counterpart, whilst men are always 'fixed and bettered' for the love of a good woman.

That's a good point Brumboo. Maybe she could have been a role model for being a strong, independent woman who can manage it on her own. The only issue there might be that strong, intelligent women pay the price by not finding love, which is another societal trope that pisses me off.

In some ways Little Women actually ended up well with Jo because she found her hero who adored her just as she was and encouraged her to continue to be the strong independent woman he'd fallen in love with. Whereas Laurie always wanted to be looked up to and adored, which is why Jo instinctively knew he wasn't right for her.

yeOldeTrout · 29/12/2020 11:03

If we're picking apart things we'd like different in the HP books, I don't care about Ron-Hermione-Harry. However...

The Wizarding world attitude to physical injury & potential death (especially children) is shocking. The hazards of Quidditch are shocking. Their safeguarding sucks.

Snape is openly abusive to many children; why was this allowed?

Why are Slytherin so awful? Do they have know noble selfless heros in the Wizarding world at all?

Dumbledore's partiality to Griffindore house is shocking.

That rich kids could openly flaunt their wealth & power to other kids in front of teachers: I guess this fits with how 1920s schooling in England would have worked.

Thank goodness for Newt Scamander because until he appeared, Hufflepuff seemed utterly eternally useless. The huge message was only Griffindores & Slytherins were powerful magicians. If you went into another house you must be completely lacking in talent, aspiration or motivation. Know your place.

PodgeBod · 29/12/2020 11:03

Book Ron was much better and more well rounded then movie Ron (though he was still sometimes jealous and sulky). I find it funny that Ron gets so much criticism when Hermione did things like imprison an adult in a jar for months and facially disfigure a classmate but she is seen in a much more positive light. I like Hermione but she was no saint!

Terracottasaur · 29/12/2020 11:06

Heaven forbid this writer ("writer") reads any Shakespeare. Surely he's depicted far more abusive relationships - Hamlet and Ophelia? Othello and Desdemona ffs?

To be fair, that’s hardly the same. Shakespeare wasn’t presenting those relationships as a good thing or as something desirable. The entire plot of Othello revolves around how his jealousy and insecurity destroys his life and Desdemona’s life. It’s not intended to be viewed as a Happily Ever After.

IamTomHanks · 29/12/2020 11:06

I agree with this but, for me, this article wasn't doing that. It was labelling the book as dangerous and, thereby, inferring responsibility for causing that 'danger' lands on the author.

Finally read the essay and that's not what I read at all. The author is discussing the "I treat you badly because I have a crush on you" which was incredibly prevalent in stories, both fiction and movies, from the 80's & 90's and the fact that's a dangerous message to send young women.

I didn't read anywhere in that essay where she said you shouldn't read the stories, just that you should be aware of the trope.

It's a pretty standard literary critique to be fair. I'm sure you'd hear it in countless Feminist Literature classes across the world.

coldwaterfeed · 29/12/2020 11:08

What? Locking siblings in attics until they sleep with each other not your idea of entertainment?

Grin Eww!

Sounds like The Famous Five but very, very wrong.

CheckYourMalePrivilege · 29/12/2020 11:08

It's girlpower, innit? And being that she's not real, she can't voice any opinion, let alone one that that's not in line with the girlpower code. So, eternal girlpower!

oiwotaluvlyday · 29/12/2020 11:09

Pleas stop over analysing it and get your relationship advice somewhere else. I would also disagree that HP is written for children after the first 2 books.

My DCs church primary school banned all the books for several years because they thought they condoned withcraft Confused

MargotLovedTom1 · 29/12/2020 11:09

AIBU to think this is irresponsible in children's literature?
i think in the past people got that stories were stories and not life-manuals and also that you could enjoy a book even if you werent that keen on the author.
something very strange is happening to young people now.

I couldn't agree more with this! I haven't read the rest of the thread in my eagerness to post, but FFS! I was obsessed with the Famous Five when I was a child, because I enjoyed them as rollicking good adventure stories. Yes, I could see Anne was a bit wet, but that was just the character. She certainly didn't teach me that girls should be subservient to boys, or conversely that the only way for a female to show strength and determination was to identify as a boy, like George.

basketballyay · 29/12/2020 11:09

I haven't read the books and have only seen the Philosopher's Stone film, and i was shocked in that film that at the end of term he was being sent back to his physically and emotionally abusive aunt and uncle for the school holiday!

MrsMiaWallis · 29/12/2020 11:10

Dd wrote her EPQ on something similar!

OneEpisode · 29/12/2020 11:12

There is lots of anti-JKR propaganda on line now. Deliberate attempts to smear her. Teen DD repeated back some one-sided nonsense yesterday which we talked about properly (out on a walk).

Later, based on what she’d said, I searched “alcohol racism Harry Potter”. Give that a try, it’s ridiculous what supposed adults are extrapolating from a children’s book..

BounceyBumblebee · 29/12/2020 11:12

Jesus. At 13 i was reading Flowers in the Attic. Now that's unhealthy......

Lol, me too. I read loads of vagina andrews at that age.

BrumBoo · 29/12/2020 11:13

The only issue there might be that strong, intelligent women pay the price by not finding love, which is another societal trope that pisses me off.

That is an annoying trope. She could have found someone (previously unmentioned character) who is more on her level as she worked her way up the Ministry, as an example. The paring up of everyone in their year/friendship group was a bit weak and predictable.

I shipped Hermione and Malfoy though, so I can't say much on that front Blush. Not for a long, loving marriage, but if he got over his wizard-racism I think he was far more on her level than any other male at the school.

MrsMiaWallis · 29/12/2020 11:13

The female characters are just there to enable the male ones though. That's very clear.

Thewithesarehere · 29/12/2020 11:13

It’s naive to think Hermione would let someone like Ron dictate her whole life. It was a teenage fling and the first few awkward relationships.
People are just trying to smear JK Rowling somehow.

BrumBoo · 29/12/2020 11:14

@BounceyBumblebee

Jesus. At 13 i was reading Flowers in the Attic. Now that's unhealthy......

Lol, me too. I read loads of vagina andrews at that age.

Snort....
RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 29/12/2020 11:15

Same here brum

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 29/12/2020 11:15

Not the snort!!!

The draco bit

IamTomHanks · 29/12/2020 11:15

I then went on to read Stephen King. IT remains one of my most favourite books but his treatment of female characters in it, including Beverley, makes my cringe as an adult. She's in the story a LOT but there is barely any mention of her that doesn't include reference to her breasts in some way

Love the book as well but it's proper cringey. And he admits it. I remember reading somewhere that he was so drunk and high at the time he doesn't actually remember writing it. Which makes sense.

If you wanted to be analytical about it you could write an essay about how it represents a time in which it was ok to sexualize pre-teen/teenage girls and how that has affected modern day views on pre-teen/teenage girls...but I guess that's cancel culture? rather than critical analysis of literature Hmm

Sinful8 · 29/12/2020 11:16

[quote MrsRogerLima]Don't get me wrong, I love Harry Potter but I never thought about the Ron/Hermione thing this way before and she is SO RIGHT.

AIBU to think this is irresponsible in children's literature?

www.bustle.com/articles/198364-ron-hermiones-relationship-in-harry-potter-wasnt-just-disappointing-but-dangerous[/quote]
An 11 saying another 11 year old is a know it all and her crying is EA?

TheMarzipanDildo · 29/12/2020 11:16

“Book Ron was much better and more well rounded then movie Ron (though he was still sometimes jealous and sulky). I find it funny that Ron gets so much criticism when Hermione did things like imprison an adult in a jar for months and facially disfigure a classmate but she is seen in a much more positive light. I like Hermione but she was no saint!”

This.

Ron is a bit of a dick sometimes but almost all of the teenage boys I have ever known in real life have been worse!

PurpleHoodie · 29/12/2020 11:17

Oh. For crying out loud.

Also- What Michelle said on page 1.

PurpleHoodie · 29/12/2020 11:17

Yabu.

Seasaltyhair · 29/12/2020 11:18

@SebastianTheCrab

Well I can see where she's coming from about Ron being generally pretty crappy to Hermione. But I think her whole shtick that this fictional relationship is inducing entire generations of women into abusive relationships is nonsense and another stick to try and beat JKR with.

It's highly significant that JKR says the Ron/Hermione relationship is symbolic of her own state of mind at the time and we know she has been in at least one abusive relationship. She's the author and it's unsurprising her books might reflect her own inner turmoil. Especially since it's fiction and she's allowed to write what she likes.

What I find remarkable about the younger generation of HP obsessive is they seem to absolutely resent the fact that JKR wrote the books - they want ownership over the series and bash her at every opportunity.

Heaven forbid this writer ("writer") reads any Shakespeare. Surely he's depicted far more abusive relationships - Hamlet and Ophelia? Othello and Desdemona ffs?

I agree.

I wonder when people are going stop trying to pull this women apart because she stuck up for women.