“He wouldn’t be where he is if I hadn’t sacrificed my career”

[BooFuckingHoo2]

I am expecting a flaming for this .

AIBU to think this is often untrue? I know many men with stay at home wives and kids who, in all honesty, whilst happy to have kids (because the wife does all the wifework) would probably have been equally happy with either no kids or extensive wraparound childcare and an equally high earning wife.

I often see it trotted out on here “I sacrificed my career to look after our children” - but the for the majority of women (aside from some exceptions e.g. husband working abroad) I’m sure it was a welcome choice and not something they were strong armed into. In my experience (unless childcare costs eclipse the wife’s salary) the husband is usually indifferent (aside from the wankers who want a trophy wife) as to whether the wife works or not.

Equally “he wouldn’t be where he is in his career if it wasn’t for me”. I’m sure there’s a small minority of women who’ve accelerated their husbands career but I think for most, they’d have been the same with or without their wife, although granted possibly with no children or higher childcare costs.

AIBU?

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee - it’s what adults should do. When it comes to compromise, one partner being a SAHP may be a perfectly acceptable, adult compromise in the circumstances. If you can’t accept that, then compromise between two grown adults is not what you are after, it’s societal change.

My DH had a SAHD & a mum who was the breadwinner. Obvs this was quite rare in the 80s/90s but I think it really instilled in him that domestic responsibilities weren't gendered. He does virtually all the cooking cause he loves it. I do the DIY, etc.

Working mothers are no longer a worthwhile investment you sound like an angry man who stockpiles beans and plays COD all day

Blaming women once more for men’s poor behaviour... this thread is so depressing

Heels, the problem is, life doesn’t always work like that and these decisions are all relative.

How does change happen.it happens incrementally. Driven often by govt and legislative changes
Maternity leave of 1yr is pretty much norm these days. At time it was contested,disputed alarmist claims it’d finish off businesses. It didn’t
Incremental and institutional changes happen because someone says no. Or asks can we do this a different way.
If we habitually believe that nowt will change then actually yes the stagnant status quo will trundle on.

As things are, there are damn-all consequence for not stepping up at home
no immediate consequence for the man but the long term consequence is that women will increasingly chose not to have children and we will become a dying society of elderly people

women will increasingly chose not to have children and we will become a dying society of elderly people what dystopian fresh hell prayer book did you copy that from?

Japan, I think. Birth rate well below replacement level. Possibly not unconnected with the expectations placed on mothers.

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

The problematic behaviour is the men’s. Yes but are they going to change it?

Only if they are with a woman who isn’t willing to step down or step back
For as long as women give in and acquiesce there will be men who impose knowing they’ll get their way

I agree. I mean, women are choosing these men as partners. Why??

Maybe the way to stop the cycle is to hold out for better instead of settling.

@DrRamsesEmerson

Japan, I think. Birth rate well below replacement level. Possibly not unconnected with the expectations placed on mothers.

Changes to their immigration policies would solve any lack of human beings.

@DrRamsesEmerson

Japan, I think. Birth rate well below replacement level. Possibly not unconnected with the expectations placed on mothers.

also perhaps connected to economic stagnation, young people not able to afford to leave home and start families expectations to care for increasingly long lived parents & grandparents? (admittedly I'm being lazy & speculating rather than researching)

Changes to their immigration policies would solve any lack of human beings
my understanding is that the Japanese regard homogeneity as necessary for cultural stability and thats a big driver for the lack of immigration?

Yes that was my understanding

Only if they are with a woman who isn’t willing to step down or step back
even if women dig their heels in some men go the 'MGTOW' or 'incel' route

I think a lot of men rely on their children's mother putting them first and not having them miss out. When in a relationship with her and outside of it.

A trivial example is someone at work who was complaining that his wife is getting stressed and moaning about doing x and y with/for the children, when he told her she doesn't have to do it. It never occurred to him to share or take over the task or what the effect would be on the children if his wife just suddenly stopped doing things.

@C8H10N4O2

I would say in most cases the choices also are mostly made by women

As others have said - choices are not made in a vacuum. Women don't unlaterally "get themselves pregnant" to use a lovely old misogynist phrase. Those choices are made in a societal context structured to prioritise and suit men.

Including settling for less than ideal partners and then playing the put-upon martyr

Or marrying someone who said all the right things and failed to step up when the time came (much commoner frankly).

Playing the victim.

Women are 100 percent in control of when and with whom they become pregnant & whether or not that pregnancy leads to a new human being.

I say that as a woman myself. No one ever hoodwinked me.

Women are 100 percent in control of when and with whom they become pregnant & whether or not that pregnancy leads to a new human being.

While not a very common scenario and quite extreme, surely you are aware that not all women everywhere (in even in the UK) are in complete control of when they become pregnant and what happens to that pregnancy.

Also I don’t yet have kids so no choices to validate

Love when people who don't have children pontificate to parent to tell us how we're doing it wrong.

@AccidentallyOnSanta

Women are 100 percent in control of when and with whom they become pregnant & whether or not that pregnancy leads to a new human being.

While not a very common scenario and quite extreme, surely you are aware that not all women everywhere (in even in the UK) are in complete control of when they become pregnant and what happens to that pregnancy.

I'm aware but women in those scenarios aren't what is being discussed here.

Seriously do none of your life circumstances ever change. Its too late to send the children back if 5 years down the line you lose your job and cant find such a flexible employer or if one of your childrens SEN turns out to be a lot more difficult and time consuming than expected.

Women are 100 percent in control of when and with whom they become pregnant & whether or not that pregnancy leads to a new human being Ohhh I must not have been repeatedly raped by my ex then and been made unable to access a doctor or hospital until it was too late and someone had to phone an ambulance for me as ex nearly killed me and my son by beating me to a pulp and throwing me down the stairs. I am so thankful I was in a block of flats with plenty of traffic. Clearly you know better though. How sheltered your life must have been if you don't realise the sheer volume of women in a abusive relationships where they have no choices whatsoever.

Changes to their immigration policies would solve any lack of human beings

Yes, because that would magically fix the social economic issues. And exactly what Yoheveho said - "also perhaps connected to economic stagnation, young people not able to afford to leave home and start families expectations to care for increasingly long lived parents & grandparents?"

"women will increasingly chose not to have children and we will become a dying society of elderly people" what dystopian fresh hell prayer book did you copy that from?

It's fact. It's currently Japan.

jillypill's comment is interesting. DH and I have both got SAHM. My DM has pursued a profession seriously (artist) but hasn't needed to make money from it. DMIL has not worked since having her children in the late 1960s. DMIL thinks I am crazy for continuing to work, I think, and DM (who is more tactful) thinks I'm making my life harder than necessary.

As I teach sixthformers Economics, I make sure we look at the gender pay gap in detail - not just the syllabus stuff but also aspects like the mental load. I want them to make decisions in a well-informed way. However, they are girls. It would be interesting to know how interested boys are. When the exam board set a context question on the gender pay gap, most candidates didn't choose it.

I enjoy my job but there are few women with young children in senior management roles in teaching in my experience and certainly none who get to go for weekday dinners at 6.30pm (PP, talking about corporate jobs). I think other professions like accountancy and HR have modernised better.